Rock Opera

[0:00]You better call.

[0:08]Is up everybody. We are back with another episode. I have a special guest rock opera, um, here with me today. We're just gonna get into the nitty gritty. This is my first time formally talking with rock opera, so it'll be a blast to, to get to meet him just like, uh, you guys all are today. So, uh, amazing to have you on here, rock opera.

[0:28]How you doing today? I'm doing great. Zal. I, uh, just took a bike around town. I live just north of Boston. Got a little rain on, but it's also nice to just breathe in that outside air, touch grass, so to speak. A million percent. I love. Yeah, biking's. Awesome. I, I wish we could bike more. Um, I am on, oh shoot. I don't know if you can still hear me.

[0:51]I can still hear you. I can still see you. Okay, perfect. I think it just gave me the, uh, battery is low, so let me plug that in. Alright. But um, but yeah, no, I love, uh, I love going for a bike ride. I used to bike to, to high school, um, and there was, uh, a really big hill. My high school's at the top of a really big hill, so I was always huffing and puffing.

[1:10]I was also late, even though I had my, my time in the world, I was always like running. Also, once I parked my bike into, I was hovering buffet on my way in, but, and you got a bike, so you're like, I'm invincible. Exactly right. So, no, I love that. And I think recently when my last, um. My last trip to Boston, um, formally was for Ethan Soul Boston, um, recently, which was really cool, hosted by Boston Dow and I've been getting more into Boston Dow since I've moved out here to Maine and, and gotten more into blockchain.

[1:41]Um, but my parents live in the suburbs of Boston, so I'll, I'll. Head over there as much as I can. Um, unfortunately a lot of, a lot of the events are during the week, so it makes it a little harder. But, uh, the last time I was there, I biked to Fenway from the venue. Right. And just like that. Yeah. One of the bikes biked over, biked back to the car and then, and then drove home.

[2:02]So, um, I think it's a really cool form of transportation in a city like Boston. Uh, Boston is a. Major city, but it's also a small city. And so I, you know, I think it technically can fit within New York's Central Park. And so having studied there at, at Boston University, uh, jogging around. It's how I've been able to connect all the little pieces, because if you just do the subway, if you just do the t, you kind of like disappear from the map and then you come back up.

[2:32]You don't really know how they're connected. You know, it's kind of like, you know, the early Mario games, you know, you go to the pipe, you come back up, but like once you walk around you're like, oh, I, I could've just walked. Yeah, no, I, I, I know, I know exactly what you mean. When I was a kid, my parents both worked in Boston, so, um, any one of our days off, they'd have to take us in with them to wherever, whatever they were doing.

[2:54]So we would take the, uh, commuter rail in and it would just be such a blessing to be able to walk the streets because it was just so different than, than, um. Our place. And then once or twice my mom had us walking instead of taking a subway because it was like a little bit longer, but it wasn't, it, it just made the trip, uh, a little bit better.

[3:15]Right. And, and I was like, oh, wow. Like, that's exactly how you did it as a kid. That that was a crazy realization. Right. So, um, but yeah. Tell me a little bit more about yourself. How did you, um, kind of come into the Web3 space? Was it, uh, when you moved here? Uh. When you moved to Boston for school or pre, previous to that, I, I feel the best way to answer that question is, uh.

[3:41]What was the price of Bitcoin when you started, you know, when you were bit by the crypto pill, so to speak and for me it was about 500. Um, and so I don't know. I don't remember exactly when that was. Yeah. But I remember buying a Bitcoin that makes sense. 500, 700, 1200. So for a while, yeah. Actually had three Bitcoin.

[4:01]It felt cool. Yeah. And then I didn't, because I was in between jobs. Instead of digging into my 4 0 1 KI, I figured I'd sell that for a little bit of profit and now I wish I did something at that point. I imagine it was like, okay, this is fun buddy. May as well use that instead of retirement money. Now you think like, oh wow.

[4:18]It's the opposite. Yeah. And um, you know, I wish I was crypto pilled harder, so to speak. Yeah. Uh, how I got into Web3 is, uh, upon setting up a wallet. I realized that all these letters and numbers, zero x, yada, yada, yada sucked. And so like I got into the ENS space and so I bought a number of Eths. Um, and uh, through that and through, uh, attending some of the Twitter spaces, I got a better handle of what Web3 can be.

[4:49]Could be. Um, there's still a lot to discover. I think, um, and it's partially why I'm starting to play into the space. Um, I'm in between jobs right now. I've been a flavor program manager for a bit. And so during this period of severance where they're paying me, um, I figured, you know what? I might as well teach myself how to code.

[5:12]I think I'm smart. And so, um, I've been working on a, uh, an Ethereum. Uh, a smart contract for tokenizing color. It, this is what's the phrase that I have here on chain, A tech for on chain artwork. Mm-hmm. And so I think that's the reason why we're, uh, why we're chatting today. I'm very curious as to what natively on chain art can be.

[5:39]I don't fully know, uh, but I figured the best way to create that fu uh, the ha to see what that future looks like is to create it. So I'm, I'm, I'm starting. A million percent. I love that. Everything about that is interesting in so many different ways. But on that point, what, um, do you wanna tell us a little bit more about what, what you're building and just like explain it a little bit more for that.

[6:02]Like, um, for like, like what would the user flow be and why would someone be minting a color? Sure. And that's a good way to put it. Thank you. So the curiosity. Came from, uh, well, what's the story that I tell you? Ever go into the back of a hardware store and you see all those color chips, you know, those rectangles with all the colors on there.

[6:28]Someone had to name those colors. Sherman Williams had a committee to decide on those color names, and that's always fascinated me. And so the, the, the original intent of this project was to name a color. There are, I see, uh, 256 levels of red, green, and blue. You multiply that together, that's 16.7 million colors.

[6:51]That's two to the power of 24. So one color is 24 bits worth of information. So for those enjoying math, there you go. Um, so I, uh, said, you know what, I'll come up with something where the, uh, token ID can be interpreted to represent a color. That's cool. I like that a lot. And so then, so instead of like storing a lot of stuff on chain or off chain, the goal was to be as on chain as possible?

[7:24]Yeah. The only on chain thing I'm storing, uh, is a, uh, is a, uh, a piece of text, uh, a string that is associated Yeah. Whatever is associated with the, the name of it. Yeah. Well, for the name. Yeah, the person who's claiming it, right? Like yeah, if you get the mint, you get to name it. Yeah. And so, um, that's the only thing that's stored on chain.

[7:47]So it's fairly light in that sense. And so if you want a picture, uh, are all the colors that are named already not in there? So is it like anyone can do any color right now and then as people get colors, they, no one else can do it? 'cause it's the first on chain one. Yeah. It, it's, well. Of that contract that has, you know, available 16.7.

[8:11]Yeah. Minus like three. 'cause you know, I'm testing, um, it, it all works. But like, you know, if there's minus three colors, you know, that's why. Yeah. Um, that's awesome. If you, if you buy it, ya meant it, it doesn't mean that someone else can't completely copy. Yeah, half the road. No, no, no. I get it. The providence with Rock opera E.

[8:33]But you know what I really like about that concept is I had been, for the longest time ideating on a, like not minting it to that level, but leveraging a color H Demal code as like, have you seen Far Caster and have heard of the fis? Sure. Like that concept of like IDing each user as a number. Um, instead of that, doing the same thing, but letting every user that like comes into my community pick their color so they pick that color for them, and that's like their user Id.

[9:10]Like, that's what we. Store on chain and leverage as a, instead of just like a wallet address could be, right. Like, it could be really cool for each wallet address within our community to have their own unique color within our community. So something like your, like you came in with a tool and a project that kind of really solves that kind of thought.

[9:29]So I think it could be really interesting to start thinking of like, instead of numbers, you think of colors, right? For like. People, and there's so much you can do with that then. So the way, so on top of that, I think of it as a crypto crayon, and I don't use that term only because that already exists out there.

[9:48]I call it a rock opera color. Um, but a crypto crayon is, it's kinda like the Crayola set, you know, oh look, here's a crayon. It has a certain color, and it's got a name on there. If it's yours, you get to put the name on there and you get to rename it and any as I drop my pen, anything that you do with that on chain, everybody can see that it's yours because only you use that color.

[10:16]So that is one of the ways that it can be used. Uh, right now you can't really do anything with it, you know, it's at the level of collectible, look at me. I own a color, whatever the heck that means. Uh, it means that, uh, there's a particular crayon box that is 16.7 million, big, all the web colors, uh, and I have one or multiple crayons and I get to name them.

[10:45]I love it. Um, we'll tap into then some of those kind of ideas you are kind of thinking about. If you had, let's say, the collectible piece, even though it's not the, the time right now and the metaphor it, let's say it all blew off, blew up, and you had enough money to start maybe hiring a couple other people in addition to you and your scaling up, what, what do you kind of see as.

[11:11]Things that you can add on to like the future of where, what, what do you wanna do with it? Like creatively? So that's an interesting question because it's a flavor of a conversation I had with my mom less than a week ago, which is if I wanted to invest in this company that you got going on, Marilyn, yeah, I had five or $10,000 to throw at you, what would you do with it?

[11:33]And I'm like, shoot. Uh, I wouldn't use it for this because part of this project is me learning how to code and me putting out something that I can be proud of, and that is not just a collectible, but also has utility. I don't know what the, and maybe this is an education, uh, effort for me. I don't know what the benefit, uh, the utility is of a board A or a crypto punk.

[12:01]The main one. Is, uh, you know, uh, collectible and there are events where you can show up with your thing and then they let you in. But like, it's not like you can remix it with other, that, with that many other things. That's the thing that really gets to me. NFT interoperability side. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Like, so NFT composability is a, is a big thing for me.

[12:25]I'd like to see more of that and, and definitely at the level of, of art, I think that's a little bit more grable and, uh, understandable. Uh, for a lot of other folks. And so I'm starting with color. Okay. Now what can you do with color? Um, the next project I'm working on, I'm happy to talk about that, is to come up with some flavor of stencil.

[12:45]So, you know, think of it as having like spray paint and then you got a stencil and then you kind of spray paint. Okay? And so now, um, I much like, uh, you can buy a color from rock opera color. You can buy rock opera stencil, probably come up with a better title. Um, and now you can have. Combinations of color and stencil, but one stencil is fine.

[13:07]What if you had multiple stencils and multiple colors? Now you can layer on different colors across different designs to come up with. A piece of art. And is this more complicated than it should be to make a piece of art? Absolutely. However, the intent is to come up with natively on chain art. Yeah. Yeah.

[13:28]No, I love it. And if this is over complicated, if this is silly, uh, and if someone can come up with a better version of all this, that is a win in my, I love, I love the energy, I love the mindset. I think one of my. One of my thoughts of doing it is like that thing, the thing that you've created, led to, um, is like agents, right?

[13:49]Like in, like someone like me who doesn't have a lot of art experience, uh, naturally, but like I have, I got my lecture engineering degree. I have a lot more of that. Like I didn't really like coding until I got into Web3, but I do have a lot of that background and understanding of computers, right? But like for me, it's not as easy for me to like.

[14:10]Go and do that, what you just said in real life. So the ability for me to like code something that helps me use these natively on chain tools to build me something right, generatively could be a really cool opportunity. And then being able to. Go even deeper than like saying, okay, like this is my art. I put it on the canvas digitally being able to come back and say like, these are my colors and stencils are also on chain, right?

[14:36]Like, and I have like, have this provenance, it just like adds to the lore and the story of the art. And I think that's the cool thing that like these on chain tools give to us. Uh, let, um, let me pull on that a little bit. Own ability. So, you know, Web3, it's like read, write, own, you know, how do you prove that you own a thing?

[14:58]Mm-hmm. You know, how do you prove that this color, I picked up my pen, this color is yours. Um, you know, you can look into it, see what contract comes from, and then you can see that a rock opera Dotti owns it. Um. If I'm reflected, then, then here's my name. Mm-hmm. Um, so that is, uh, one of the unique aspects of this whole Web3 world that, that, that we're exploring.

[15:25]And so that is what I'm trying to explore as well. What does it mean to only work with tools? Native to an on chain world. And so right now what are we talking about? We're talking about the visual arts. Uh, there could also be the audio arts. You know, what does it mean to own a note? You know, what does it mean to own a beat or a rhythm?

[15:48]What does it mean to own combinations of it? Like can only one person own it? That doesn't seem fair. I'm gonna make my own set. I'd love to have that problem. So yeah, that is where my head is, is going. Yeah, that's a really interesting question. Like where you go with that, that could be really cool. Um, because that my point of also some of that is like if you did have prices for it, and some of these like.

[16:14]AI agents could come in, grab some notes and like try and build songs off of that. It could just be a really interesting added layer, like you said, of composability. Um, that just is, is really cool and unique. So. No, I love, I love everything you're doing. Is there, um, more you wanna share about your background of like the wor the name Rock Opera?

[16:38]'cause I'm also curious there. Oh yeah. We have a, we have a music on chain community at the Zow and that's kind of like the, the angle we're looking at is just like helping musicians build on chain tools and build open source products that anyone can use and leverage. Right. Is our, my goal is to teach musicians and I'm, I'm just curious a little bit more about the name Rock Opera.

[16:59]Uh, that's very fair. So, uh, my, my education background is biomedical engineering, so we've probably taken some similar classes. Um, and I'm a classically trained piano person, so I've played at conferences, uh, concerts and all the scales, all four octaves on both hands. Um, and so. When picking a name for myself, some kind of eth, um, I went through a bunch and for some reason that was one of the, uh, brainstorming things that made me feel like I was emanating positive energy.

[17:39]And so when I adopt the name Rock Opera Ethan, I've walked around the office and folks who knew said Rock opera, and I'm like, Ugh, I'm just. I'm just feeling it. I, I just, you like the name, so Yeah. It just, it just, it just, uh, it just appeared to you and it makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. And I like that. And, and, and it doesn't feel incongruous.

[17:59]You know, there is an aspect of me where, you know, not how I'm just right now, but like I could walk around and I just feel like a freaking rock star. Um, but a little bit more to that. I break it up into rock and opera, rock, like rocking out, it's like a verb. You know, you're, you're moving, you're giving off energy and you're giving others energy.

[18:17]You're making stuff. But then opera, which is plural for opus, which means a piece of work. So you got the verb and you got the noun. Mm-hmm. So it means that you're actually getting things done. You're delivering and you're shipping. I love that you pressing publish. So it's the combination of Yes. Create.

[18:34]But also get it out there in the world. So rock opera means a number of things for me. It makes it's, it's how I feel, but also that combination of verb and noun and how artists should not just make, but create and share. I love it. That's so cool. Um, okay. Well thought out after, like so you found Yeah. It just, it spoke to you and I love that 'cause that's such a good way of finding things when you just know it's it's the right choice.

[19:05]Yeah. My gut said yes, so I went All right. And that's one of the nice things about Web3. This can be one persona I take on. Mm-hmm. You know, I can in, in a different world, I can take on another persona with another. Uh, wallet and, you know, zero x, yada, yada, yada. A hundred percent. No, that's the id. The digital ID part is another part.

[19:28]Like would love to chat more with you in our last few minutes here, because I. I, the first purchase I made was Zeth, like bigger purchase than like, you know, a little bit, because unfortunately that's a four letter name, so it's like Yeah. 128 bucks. 200 bucks. Yeah, exactly right. Like a lot of money compared to like, once I realized.

[19:51]A little bit later that like longer names are like almost sense comparatively. Um, I was like, oh, okay. But I still have bought it every single year since because like there is that like digital provenance and like on Instagram I don't have the at ZO username and I've been like trying to like report the dude for.

[20:10]Nine to 10 years now, or I guess more than that now, but just like a really long time, never been able to like get Instagram to be able to do anything. Even like sending id and I get that, like that wouldn't be any reason too, but like dude hasn't used it since like he made it. Right. So just frustrating.

[20:26]Then on far Cast, I got, I finally got like the username ads all and it felt like a nice place to, you know, call home, um, because of that. And then now like being able to attach other wallets to that. Forecaster ID and starting to really build out, um, that provenance. Like you have tools that are out there.

[20:45]There's the, I think there's a GitHub passport, which is pretty cool. Optimism has recently created a, a super chain achievements thing as well, which is up that line and, and there's so many cool. Things now than when I started. Um, that help add on to the like, okay, like now there's ways to look into someone and like see the things they own and when they got 'em versus like tools in the past were, it was a lot harder and you had to know a lot more of like how you're using Ether scan and more.

[21:16]Right. So, um, I would love to hear more about like, what are your thoughts on this? Like you came into the ENS world for Web3. Where do you see that going? What do you want to see out of. Out of that digital identification world. Sure. So, uh, part of my background has involved, uh, training product managers.

[21:35]And so one of the questions that we ask is, uh, what problem you're trying to solve? And I guess a better flavor of that that I like is, uh, what are the jobs to be done? What are the verbs, engineers? So I think rather abstractly, what are the verbs that you're going for? With this distribute, you know, with the DID or PID and one of them is trust.

[22:00]You know, can I trust you? Um, I don't know what all these letters and numbers are. I have to go ba. And so, um, how do you build trust takes time and it takes, um, in between people anyway, uh, being vulnerable. Like showing you that I can, you know, make mistakes and then you're more likely to lean in and help me.

[22:24]And then, yeah, trust. But it also takes time. So that means sharing what you've done over time and that, and doing so in a way that gets everybody to feel safe is, you know, like it would be kind of cool if one day, maybe my medical records are associated with my idea, but only in a way that. The people that I bless will be able to see and get info from.

[22:53]Um, so I, I, I think that any way that we can experiment with this kind of thing, uh, means that it'll eventually, you know, result in something that we can use. And if that means experimenting at the level of play, since I think that's where a lot of things are experimented with in the beginning. Like, heck, a lot of this tech.

[23:16]Yeah. Is it, is it to make a meme coin now folks are still playing, but then as a result, you, you, you, you develop, uh, through practice and through standards, all these other, uh, things. So I, I think this is a space where folks wanna explore and try. Um, I, I, this sounds trite, but it's never been a better time to try, you know, I didn't spend any money learning how to code.

[23:45]There are so many free things. Yeah, a hundred percent. You know, si from up, uh, updraft is, is is a group that I really liked. Patrick Collins. He had like a, a 32 hour monster session on YouTube, and I learned a ton. Uh, he has, he has a more, uh, modern, uh, class right now that's also free, but there's like. So many free things up there and like test nets that you can try.

[24:10]Tool chains like, like truffle and foundry and I used hard hat, you know, uh, folks be building and giving things away to help more people build. So, you know, if I can get my butt to yes while applying for jobs, learn how to code and pump stuff out there in about four to five months. I don't know who you are, pal, but you can too.

[24:34]So well said, give yourself a shot. Boom. I love it. And that's like even deeper than the, the opportunity for artists today for like vibe coding where there's just like, just using natural language to leverage AI and just kind of see the output and then re-input stuff back in, uh, in, right. So, uh. I think it's really cool that you're diving deeper than that and want to get like into, you know, leveraging the code itself.

[25:07]But I think one of the cool things that's happened in the last few years is that AI has gotten to a place where individuals can do basic. Like hacks of initial things to start and ideate about, like, oh, what could be, and then continue down the path. Right. I, I, I wanna jump in on this point. Yeah. AI is getting to the point where it can get you 80% of the way so dang quick.

[25:32]But, you know, I, I wouldn't trust Claude, which is the, the, the thing that I use alongside, uh, vs. Code on my, my MacBook Air, very old MacBook Air here. Um. You know, I, I don't trust it to completely, uh, protect me from recy attacks and other things like that. So, like, I gotta put in the effort to learn about, uh, how are people getting screwed?

[25:56]You know, I think wrecked r Eek t news. Yep. If that's the website, you know, talks about all the ways that folks be losing money in the world of crypto. So then you gotta, okay. Learn about that and apply it to yourself. So, uh, I think it's great for putting out a proof of concept, just like you said, but then things like.

[26:14]You know, is it secure? You know, uh, do I trust? Uh, this contract such that if I give it my money, it's not, I'm not gonna be rugged, you know? And so that's why I wanna make this as on chain as possible. I'm not pointing to some picture on S3 bucket on AWS. Yeah, everything is on chain. That's the goal. I love that when you have it, it's indeed yours.

[26:40]So, so my point in all that is yes, definitely play with ai. This is the first time I really have, I've been treating it like a smart friend. It's been great for helping me come up with, uh, the syntax, uh, for different things that I'm using exactly. Um, but it's, the responsibility falls on me. If, if I'm the only human in the loop, then I gotta be a more competent human, which is why, uh, I've been learning, uh, about this a little bit more.

[27:07]Boom. Well said. That is such a good way of putting it. Um, I, I love everything about it. The, the more on chain we can build primitives, the more on chain primitives we can build, the better. So I love that you're attacking it from that like, uh, color angle and one of our. Um, sides of it is just trying to build some of these tools for, um, for anyone to use and, and come in and leverage and then build on top of, of course.

[27:31]So, um, I'm excited about this creator world. It was amazing having you on and just listening and hearing a little bit more of what you're. Up and how you're thinking. And uh, it's getting me thinking about a couple cool ideas as well. So I appreciate you coming on. Do you have any last words? Where can people find you?

[27:48]Um, other than rock, opera dot east? Um, if you wanna share and, um, and yeah, do you have any last words? Uh, I'm on the Boston Dow. If you're in the area, I'd love the chat. I got the time. But, and this is also an interesting area that I think we will see more of. I think there will only be more crypto stuff.

[28:07]As we move into the future, that's like the first line that I share with, with my folks. Like, you know, there's only gonna be more. So we might as well get into it. Uh, get out there, create and share whatever form of art, uh, you are capable of and you're interested in. Rock on every people's boom. Well said.

[28:28]Thank you for coming on and uh, everyone have a good night.