Ali · Inflynce

[0:00]You better call.

[0:08]To another episode of Better Calls Zaal yaps. I'm here with Ali from Inflynce Ali. How we doing today? Hey man. Thanks for having me. It's all good. What about you? I'm doing wonderful. I know we've had some technical difficulties to finally get here today. Yeah. But influence is actually one of the first farcaster mini apps that I tried out and over the course of now in the year and a half.

[0:32]That have been, um, more seriously on farcaster. I've been seeing you grow as well as the community in many different aspects. Yeah. So I wanted to invite you on, get a little bit more of your story as well as what influence is and what you guys are planning towards. So we'd love for you to just share a little bit of an intro for everyone.

[0:52]Yeah, definitely man. Ali, so I'm right now is just building, launching products. Influence is one of them. So previously I worked at a company called Favor. It was a web, three social media. That's why I deeply, um, interested about the decentralized social graphs. It was merging both lens photo podcaster in one mobile app.

[1:11]So that's my background, where it comes from. So yeah, during that time I learned lots of things and I became product guy and now. After, unfortunately, you know, building a consumer app, especially in social area is not easy. Uh, shutdown in 2024 December after that, I was looking for what I can do more. Not gonna lie, I applied more than 180 place.

[1:38]So, and then no one hire me. So, so you like, I guess also deaf then, right? Yeah. So no one can hire me. I said alright, I had to do something. Okay. You know, meanwhile, in the beginning of the, at the end of 2024 and the beginning of the 2025, the Kato was super popular. Mm-hmm. So everyone is about to yapping, everyone's about to talk about mind share.

[2:03]It was, uh, pretty early one. So it was the first one actually. So I said, let's copy this. Really, let's copy this. When I checked the Twitter API prices, I said, I understood it's not possible. Impossible. I can't, I, I can't afford that. So it's super expensive and I, I little deeply know about the forecast because of my previous company I worked for.

[2:27]Mm-hmm. That's, I said, all right, let me check the forecast. It's possible. Yes. Possible. Then last week, so I started to just click out and just said, you know, mock up algorithm about how we can measure the mind share for farcaster and then. I called my ex-colleague, uh, assistant architect, developer, uh, and I said, let's just do it.

[2:50]I don't know, I can't pay you, but we can be co-founder if it works, if it works, if it doesn't work, nothing to lose. So, and that, and we built the first, um, my chair and the first and the only one, the, my share application of farcaster we launched in. 2025 last year, 27 or 28th of April. Then how things evolved like that.

[3:13]That's awesome to hear. I love that. That's an interesting, um, kind of like evolution from favor into then being like, okay, like I want a crypto job, applying to so many and then being like, okay, well I guess I'm gonna just do it myself, right? Yeah. And um, and that's cool that you were able to call on someone you had met previously in your network and just be like, Hey.

[3:33]Got this idea, like, let's rock it out together. I don't know where it's gonna go, but we'd love to have you on for the ride. So, um, that, that's such a cool, cool way of how co influence was kind of created. I know a lot of people have been interested in this whole. Um, engagement meta. Yeah. So, um, but that experience is completely different on a platform like X versus a platform like farcaster.

[3:57]Yeah. Not only with the cost of the APIs, but also the community that's there. Um, would love for you to share, um, before favor. What was your kinda like entry point into Web3? Yeah. What, um, kind of pushed you over the rabbit hole, um, era into the rabbit hole? Yeah. First time I bought a Bitcoin, it was a top signal.

[4:16]It, it, it was back in 2000, I guess it was end of 2017, if I remember correct. Okay. It was, it was, we, I bought Bitcoin because of my friend at top level, so, and then it dropped, I guess we lost. More than 80% or something like that.

[4:34]So I said, fuck it. What the fuck is that? I don't care. So this is a gambling, this is a scam, you know? And then I don't, I come back to crypto. It was two 2020. So then I started as a trader. Okay. Uh, and I didn't know anything, actually. Nothing. Yeah. I was just, you know, just checking the ticker. Okay. I like the ticker, Mike.

[4:57]Yeah. So everyone was thinking about the blockchain, but I didn't know what was that. So it was super weird for me. Okay. Yeah, I just want, I wanted to send money to my friend and he said to me, send me a crypto. I said, what? Yes, send you a crypto. I said, I didn't know that possible. So just. Money. Yeah. So you were kind of treating it just like, just like stocks, right?

[5:23]Like no different. Yeah. I, I was very dumb, so I just, okay. Let research about that. Meanwhile, I was making lots of money. Also, meanwhile, I was losing lots of money. Yeah. So it was, you remember, you remember 2021 bull season, right? Yeah. We, I'm talking about that. I actually joined in, in 23, but I've 100% heard it, uh, over and over again from all of our, okay, so NFT musicians.

[5:48]In one night. In, in. So just imagine in one night you are, you are making 10 x in one night. So it was crazy. That's crazy. Yeah. When you look at, when you look at traditional finance as the lever and asset class, and then you change into something that's exponential, it, uh, it completely blows your mind.

[6:09]Yeah, definitely. Then what happened? I say everyone's talking about the Defy. I learned defy. Okay. What happened after defi? I lost, I, I, I lost, I lost money again because mm-hmm. I was trading, I was trying to understand what's that? I was using all of the contents, all of the vault, sorry, applications. So I, you know, joined lots of testnet, many things.

[6:30]It, one of the early times of Arabic room. So, and I really did lots of things. Meanwhile, I was testing the applications. Mm-hmm. That's the most important part, because that will change my career. Yeah. So by the way, I'm come from, I'm, I'm actually an architect. I come from an architectural study. Interesting.

[6:50]Yeah. How long, um, how long had you had, had you been doing that, uh, until you kind of joined? I never, I never worked for an architecture company. Oh, okay. You just got the schooling. Yeah, but I just start crypto in my, in my while, while I studying, so. Okay, okay. That's awesome. Yeah. In architecture, we see everything layer by layer.

[7:12]That's why, uh, it, it really. It hits me in different ways. So in the production also, you have to see everything layer by layer. Yeah. So that's why you step back and, and look at the big picture, right? Yeah. That, that's why, for example, probably it affect me too much. I was deeply, uh. Uh, I was, whenever I was using the, earlier, one of the early vault, for example, I was say, oh my God, this too bad.

[7:35]Just put this to here, here, follow his wrong, whatever. So I was always just thinking about them. Anyway, in 2021, the defi summer, I learned five. I lost money. I said, everyone's talking about prize action. Price action trading model. So, okay, learn that. I learned every sheet done. Learned this one. It was 2020, 22, uh, January I graduated.

[7:58]At that time, I extended my school and then I learned the price action, but this time I started to make money because there was a really, you need to manage your psychology. It's just really, it's 80% psychology, 20% the fundamentals of the price actions. So. It was super nervous process for me. I really didn't like trading.

[8:23]I was not part of it. In, in my blood. There's not nothing about the trader. Yeah. I, I really don't like it makes me nervous. You don't feel good at the end of the day. Right. Like that you, that you're moving, moving the needle forward. Yeah. It it makes me so nervous. Really. Yeah. No, I get that. I, I did the options trading and that's how I started learning about trading myself, so Yeah, no, I mean, you, you just get.

[8:46]Like you said, 80% psychology. If you don't have a hundred percent of that 80%, you know, you, you have those, those nerves in it and it Yeah. And it becomes hard. Yeah, definitely. And also, meanwhile, I lost everything in 2000 when, whenever I started the projection I lost, I started as a someone. Is totally broke.

[9:06]So in 2022 March, I saw one TVT from, uh, just, uh, uh, Turkish ql. He was just sharing okay, the, the application of the favor. So I saw, I just told on it. I saw, and I just joined their discord. There was no one, maybe a thousand people, I was one of the early one. I said, okay, let's just hang out there. So what's going on?

[9:29]We started to talk with the people in the Discord. So, and I started to ask questions. And I gave feedback about application they made be contributor. And whenever some people just joined, I was exp I was answering their questions for free. Just, just for, as a, as a contributor. So then I contributed too much.

[9:48]I trusted everything to Turkish, my native language. Mm-hmm. So, yeah. And then I did lots of things to support them, but it wasn't enough for me. I created, I said, okay, let's just make some notes for them about the application. I started writing just a couple of page, a couple of bullet points, and then it became a one page, then couple of page, then five page, then 10 page and 28.

[10:11]So yeah, you just start doing the documentation and Yeah, and they, I'm sure they were loving that because yeah, documentation is one of the things that everyone always needs more of. Yeah. And also it wasn't. Pure product feedback, product feedback, reporting. Yeah. No, it's great when someone outside of the organization gives that product feedback because yeah, that's, I mean, when you're so deep in it, it just becomes hard to see that other perspective.

[10:35]Exactly. The outside perspective. That's cool. That's cool. Exactly, exactly. And then when I sent them, it was 2022 to July, they said, okay, we should hire you. That's how they hired me. That's awesome. No formal process. Yeah, just like, uh, you know, balling out in the community, showing your value. I think, yeah.

[10:55]That's one of the cool things about crypto is like you can potentially have a job opportunity by being there, being active and, and wanting to move the community forward. Right. Like you said, you, you found a place where there was a, uh, a. Sort a place that could be the push forward and you're like, you know what, I'm gonna just take, take the mantle here.

[11:16]And like you said, it went from one page to 20 pages, uh, over, over the span of that short of a time. That's awesome. So, so that's how you, you kind of really came into crypto and then were worked paper for some time. Yeah, it, that's how my offer. Professional career started, but before that, I started in 2020 trader.

[11:35]I was just, you know, trans hunting in different disco channels, different telegram groups, blah blah. But so yeah, my professional career started in 2022. That's so cool. I love, I love hearing that because every single person has their story of how they came into crypto and we're all like kind of at the same cipher punk values now.

[11:56]Yeah. But at the same time, every person like has their own journey. Like, okay, I was a, I was a trader and I came in and I was a musician and I came in, or Yeah, this and that. And it's just, it's cool to see that evolution of. You know, just joining a community, getting an opportunity for a paid job through that, starting your career, and then I'm sure making some connections.

[12:15]Right. I, I think you mentioned that your, um, your current co-founder, um, was from meeting, from, from that job, right? Yeah. Yeah. Or maybe just connect. Yeah, yeah, yeah. System architect. He was systematic at there. So we met there. Yeah, I think, and it's so important to find the right people because once you work with someone and you know how they work and how you guys communicate well, because that chemistry, it completely changes everything.

[12:44]We're, we're, when we're working online with people. Yeah, 24 7, you know, you, you don't get those in-person social cues that you do get working in an in-person environment. So you have to like be even more communicative and more on top of those pieces. So if you find someone that you know you work well with, it's really easy to bring 'em on.

[13:03]And that a different topic. Right. Um, yeah, exactly. That's awesome. Well, tell us a little bit more about influence. Um, if you had to give it in a, you know, you know, an elevator pitch, what would you Yeah. Tell everyone influences. Yeah. Maybe to before elevator pitch part, maybe I can, if I can explain the story, maybe.

[13:22]Please do. Please do. Yeah. Back easy for everyone because the story starts a problem. Then we build the mind share heat map. Mm-hmm. So the, in our application there was this only mind share heat map. No. Marketing app. Okay. So no marketing tool we couldn't find. And when you say Mindshare heat map that, what do, what do you mean by that definition?

[13:44]It's, it, it, it means all right. Now when you open the first time, the arm mini app, you will see, uh, some, some type of, uh, just as. Chart graph, and which we are ordering people based on the, their share of in the, on the entire network. So who, who has, who, who is making the more, more real noise than compared the rest of the people in the ecosystem?

[14:09]Awesome. Thanks for that definition. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. So then we couldn't find single user. How we can grow. We didn't know, so I couldn't find single useful tool to promote. My application was just QR at. I didn't want to pay something QR to 200, $300 for, I don't, I don't know what will happen at the end of that.

[14:34]Yeah. So that's why I don't want, in the one, in one time, I didn't want to give 200, $300. Uh, and then there was a jbo, they shut down at some point. I don't remember when, but, uh, it was fully bought. So it was not protecting by, it was not protecting your budget. So what was engaging with you? Mm-hmm. I said we need something to pay to, to just engage with the real creators.

[15:00]And you know, my, I was discussing with my co-founder Gia. Gia is a ex Unity Ads employee. Okay? So that's why he understand advertisement. Infrastructure. He said to me, oh, just go and pay just ERs one by one manually. I said, no, never. So it's uh, we, we need a system for it. And then we come up with the Influence Hub.

[15:26]Now new name is the Marketing Hub solution. The system was simple. We just wanted to just pay the creators on Fire cluster, the people on Fire cluster to engage with us. Like, or repos. So, and we did something crazy. Everyone was defining data price. In other, there was this for, there was s for example, you, you know s Yeah.

[15:49]In s, if they follow you, you can just buy like, or repos. First of all, if you are an even account, you can't use it. Secondly, yeah, if you, why I'm paying for whatever you want. It should be automated by a system. So what we did, we made the system permissionless and we just packed the payouts pay, uh, to my share.

[16:12]Mm-hmm. So if your my share is 1%, you are earning $1. That's simple. So that's, we built the marketing hub, our marketing feature, to amplify ourselves. We, we don't expect that other people will use it actually. So it's great. The, the best applications are dog booted applications, right? Where Yeah, where you yourself can use it as well, but then other users are like, oh, that's useful for me as well.

[16:39]Yeah, definitely. That's awesome. So I can totally see that like evolution, but sorry, continue. Uh, no. Sorry, I I just lost your voice, so please go on. Oh, I was just saying I can see the, um, the evolution from like, you were like, okay, qr like this is a cool opportunity, but like this is kind of a high price point for me to just try it out.

[17:01]Yeah. So you have this price point where like you can start in at any price where you're putting in that budget. Yeah. I think I can totally see that evolution. Yeah. Yeah. So, and then what we did, but what we did when we saw a green light from the ecosystem where the other people started to try, we improved that.

[17:19]We made it, uh, bot protection. We improved a lot because people tried to gamify. Yeah. So, and we, we, whenever you give out reward and incentives, the people come out of the woodwork. Right? Yeah. That you have to find different ways to, to, to squash the moles. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely me. We also just, we had to improve our, my algorithm, which is right now it works very perfect in my opinion.

[17:42]So, and secondly, we had to improve the best system to scale it so that. We so far it, we launched in that feature on the 6th of June, or 10th of June, I don't remember, but June last year, June, in just nine months, we processed 1.5 more about more than 1.4 million transactional base by paying ERs more than $65,000.

[18:06]That's awesome. I love that. Yeah, I mean, it's, it's the perfect, I, I always share influence actually as an example of farcaster and why farcaster is so uniquely cool because you have the opportunity to, and, and it's simple because you, you can always talk to about a web, two social media platform in ad spend, and it's like, okay, like if you spend 10, 20, a hundred dollars on an ad.

[18:31]Who is actually getting that a hundred dollars out of all the people there? Yeah. It's usually the web two company for just like using their platform, not the places that it's actually being displayed. Yeah. But I think changing that perspective and saying like, okay, like now my ad spend as a community owner.

[18:48]Is a hundred percent going to the individuals who are actually sharing this out. It completely changes your mindset on advertisement, I think. Yeah, because it's no longer, it's no longer this like company to company thing, but it's a little bit more personal. Exactly. Now what we do is definitely, it's the problem with the and what the as environments where you are paying the protocol because of they have mass adaption.

[19:15]Mm-hmm. And they are showing you some metrics. Let's say for example Twitter, they are showing you take impression numbers, but actually you don't get any real conversation under the comment or you don't get even any like or retest. Yeah. So, but now how, who makes the actually impact? Whenever a high influencer posted your content, you will get real engagement.

[19:37]So that's the difference actually. That's why our model is better than the existing models actually. But of course, uh, we, we, there, there are also limits for it. So, and you need to target, you need to blah, blah, blah. You need lots of things. But whenever you became a permissionless, there would be always problems as well, because mm-hmm.

[19:57]Being permissionless has limits. Actually limits means some people will go wild. Some people may just share some, you know, fake contract. Yeah. Or what they can just share, you know, any kind of, uh, harmful content, so it's mm-hmm. Up to them. So it's same for example, today, any type of launch pad, any clunker mm-hmm.

[20:20]Uh, or banker bot, you can launch a token, right. Anyone can launch a token. Permissions, but I don't wanna say the name, but if, if you say, if you put a harmful name to that token ticker, so it's. Annoying for some people, but what we can do, it doesn't make the technology overall a bad. Right. Still technology is good, but some people is using in a bad way.

[20:42]Totally. Yeah. I think I cut out there for a second, but No, I totally get what you mean. When you make it permissionless, you do unfortunately remove. The ability to censor and while Yeah. You know, censorship as a whole, everyone looks very down upon it. It doesn't mean that it's always a bad thing because there will be bad actors coming in and Yeah.

[21:02]Trying to ruin a good environment. So you can always think in this idealistic world, but unfortunately that's not the world we live in. Yeah. So like, I actually think it's, um, it's better that way because then I feel. As though as a user of the protocol, I'm not just going to every single post and saying, okay, like this is getting money.

[21:21]Yeah. Boom, I'm gonna do it. But like, I actually have to make sure like this resonates with me and the people that I want to share it with. Right. Yeah. I think, um, exactly. It makes it, again, more authentic. And I think that's like the beauty of farcaster and bringing your social graph on top of a wallet.

[21:38]It just brings in so much more, um, transparency, I think as a whole. Yeah, exactly. Exactly, and the whole point is the man, we, we, what we do is after we launched that application, probably there were more than five or six similar applications that people built it. And some of them already shut down. Some of them is continue, but so people is trying whatever it works, right?

[22:04]So, and. What we saw, our bot model is the best one because in our system we support auto engagement. We launched recently, not recently, maybe a couple of months ago, but so in manual engagement, they have to see, you have to, as a creator, you have to see the content. So which means if you'll first see the content, if you like the content, maybe you'll engage.

[22:29]And yes, of course you will. You will get payment for black or repost, whatever. But whole point is getting visibility because the marketing funnel didn't change since Stone Age. So it has, uh, four steps. You need to create awareness and internet first. To get conversion and retention. So whole point of the, any advertisements, any edge spending, the increasing the baseline.

[22:51]Because if, if you, if you reach more people, you are at least reach, convert rate, even if 1%, it's, it's amazing number. So that's the whole point. Reaching more people as much as possible to get maximum visibility. You can't expect a hundred percent conversion rate. It's not possible. It's, mm-hmm. It'll be never possible in any environment.

[23:12]So. That's the whole point. What we do, people will see whatever you put there. Now, resident, we launch also open boost type, which means it doesn't have to be far casted content. It can be any link. It can be TV post, it can be YouTube channel. It can be a just whatever link you have in the internet. So you are paying for people to explore something.

[23:35]Of course, some of them will engage if they like. And many of them will not engage. But that's the whole point. So giving people to explore something. I love that. Um, I'm coming close to my time here, but I just want to give. Uh, an opportunity a for you to share, you know, where people can meet you and, and find you.

[23:54]But I wanna say like, the coolest thing I think you guys have done and what you said is there's a lot of competitors who have come out with this, um, yeah. Engaged to earn type mentality. But I think what you guys pair it really well with is that. Mind share graph because if that wasn't your first product, you know, you wouldn't be able to have it work so well with the engage to earn.

[24:16]Because individuals who are very active in not only the farcaster community, but also the influence community have more of that push, and I think that again, generates more authentic. Um, usage and what you were saying at the end of the day is you're never gonna get a hundred percent conversion, so why don't we increase the volume of the people that are gonna view your content.

[24:36]Yeah, exactly. That's the whole point. Awesome. I love it. Ali, where can we find you, um, on the interwebs, if, if people want to connect. Yeah, of course. So my Twitter username and the faculty username is same. It's my. Name and surname is in English characters, so they can find me, they can DM me if they have a, if you, if they wanna build a mini app, if they already build something.

[25:00]So I'm happy to just check and give my feedback. That's awesome. I love that. We love builders, builders helping other builders. Um, thank you Ali for, for your time today. Um, I'm very excited about the future of influence. Um, I don't know if you wanna share, um, in our last couple minutes here, um, big picture goals for 2026.

[25:22]For sure. Uh, I think now we are expanding to our reach to Twitter, first of all. So to just rewarding the ERs on the, the Twitter side. So it'll be very different than my share system. It'll be the tier system. Now we are searching how we can do it in a clear way. So of course we'll make it a in our way, not like a copycat way.

[25:42]So, but what we do is now we are researching for it to just, um, to reach. Mass adaption right now, the demand of farcaster is not super well because of the, you know, overall it's a GATE community and it, it was amazing to test. I, it is an amazing place to test ideas, first of all, and now, but at some point you need to scale.

[26:03]So that's why we are expanding the tip. That's one of our goal in this year. Awesome. I love it. It sounds like a, a perfect evolution in once you've kind of worked on that product and now you have it to a point where you want more people to check it out. So, um, I'm there. I have a couple Twitter accounts and brands that we definitely wanna amplify.

[26:25]So we will be there, uh, wave Wars team and Zow team sharing stuff out. So thank you for your time Ali. Thanks for anyone who popped in the recording or the live. Um, we appreciate you guys and have a wonderful rest of your day. Thanks for having me, man. A million percent. Thank you.