Jordan · Ryft

[0:00]You better call zaal.

[0:08]Welcome back to another Better Calls Zaal yaps. I'm here with Jordan JK Charters. How you doing today, Jordan? I'm doing outstanding man. Just, uh, you know, been, been grinding, kind of grinding in the shadows a little bit, you know, not, not telling too much, uh, about what's uh, coming, but we're kind of ramping that up now and so.

[0:29]Um, but what a time, right? What a time to be alive with everything that's happening with age agentic commerce and all the tools at our disposal. I mean, if you're, if you're an ideas guy, if you're someone that you know has, has always wanted to build certain things like you, you actually do it now and it doesn't cost like an arm and a leg, right?

[0:49]And you don't have to pay huge dev teams and all these different things. So. It's, um, it's exciting. Super exciting. Yeah. I think the, uh, challenge has gone from like actually execution to like after execution. What happens now? When you have something, what do you do with it? And like, how do you like. Now that you can test and iterate on so many different things and you can try things out, what do you do after you've found something that's good and has like some sort of fit after that?

[1:19]Right? And isn't just slop. So it's amazing to have you on. Um, I'd love for you to go into a little bit of a intro about yourself, like share with everyone who is, uh, JK Charters. Oh man. Let's see. Well, where, where do I really start? I mean, I guess, I guess I can start with what most people might be interested in is how did I get into this industry?

[1:46]Right? How, how did, how did, how did I get into crypto and all of that. So I'll just kind of break that down. Um. So it was in 2017 that one of my friends was, uh, had his own like crypto exchange, his own BTC exchange in, uh, Korea. And he, so that, that kind of like got me thinking about what we, you know, about crypto.

[2:13]But before that even was in 2010. So in 2010 I was running four, uh, sports massage clinics in the Portland, Oregon area. Wow. And I had a friend that was mining Bitcoin and he was like, bro, this is the future and you need to take, uh, payments for massage services at your clinic with, with Bitcoin. And I, I almost did it.

[2:40]I almost did it. But the thing is that the, the way that the. The rails for getting on chain and, and all that. Like it wasn't super smooth back then. Right? A hundred percent. Yeah. And so I looked into it and I was like, ah, you know, I don't know. Um, you know, maybe we can do that in the future. And, uh, and. I didn't even read the white paper like an idiot, you know, because No, seriously, if I read that white paper, bro, go, yeah, but how do you not read the white paper at that point?

[3:11]Right? He, he told me, he told me to read it. He's like, dude, read it. And, and I even thought to myself too, I was like, okay, digital money. Um, yeah, I just, I don't know. I've been a gamer all my life and I love gaming and I understand like, you know, digital economies and, you know, digital currencies and things, but like what happens if, you know, you get an EMP attack, right?

[3:37]What happens if you know this or that? So, you know, I was kind of like gaming out scenarios of why Bitcoin wouldn't work. Yeah. And not thinking about why it would work. And, uh, so it wasn't till later that. I really started looking at it and then like in 2017, a little bit here and there, um, didn't really dip into it much.

[4:02]And then it was in 2019 that I was talking with. Um, I was in Ukraine at the time, so I was, uh, one of the rehabilitation advisors for Ukrainian military and they have a big tech sector there. Lots of guys that love crypto and. So I was talking with them about it and they're like, dude, like you gotta get into crypto, you gotta get into looking at this stuff.

[4:28]I was, I was already thinking of a, of a product, um, 'cause I've always been an entrepreneur and so I was thinking of this way that we can like fund nonprofits by using like crowdsource digital assets for video games. And when we were looking at ownership, ownership in games. The blockchain kept coming up over and over and over and over again.

[4:52]And so I started working with the wax blockchain and I started working with, you know, other infrastructures. That was in 2019. And um, and then in 2020, um, I actually got, uh, some dogecoin, like very little amount, not very much. And, and I should, I should have actually, uh, you know, like mind it, but I did it.

[5:17]And, um. That, that like a hundred and something dollars worth of Dogecoin. I mean, it turned into, you know, thousands and thousands of dollars later, you know, when Doge started going and that, and that's when it really piqued my interest. That's when I was like, okay. Um, like maybe I need to get paid some money now.

[5:34]Now I need to. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And then, and so where I really, really cut my teeth in this industry at first was on wax and I made. I made good money just flipping NFTs. I was flipping gaming NFTs on Alien Worlds. Do you know what Aliens World Alien Worlds is? I haven't never heard of it. No. It's just a mining game.

[5:54]It's a game where you get different NFTs, you get mining equipment. You mine every so often. You can. Um huh. You can mine. So it depends on your rig. Like you could be mining every five minutes, could be mining every 10 minutes. You actually have to click it. Right. You actually have to click it. So there were times where when I was.

[6:15]Doing that. I mean, it was kind of crazy because I had like timers set up. So I would, I would wake up like one or two in the morning just to click it. Yeah, yeah. Just to click, just click the button so that I could see if I was gonna mine, you know, a new item or, and you know, sometimes that one click was worth like 30 or 40 bucks or 50 bucks, you know?

[6:36]So I was like, Hey, you know that it's worth waking up in the middle of life. It's, it's worth it for me. It's worth it for me. Yeah. And then, uh, and then that, that was kind of like the beginning of like tw uh, like, like 2021, like 2021. And then into going into, uh, um, like early 2021, I found Defi started getting into defi with an like B, S, C.

[7:03]And then I did, uh, some other things. And then, and then my biggest, my biggest, uh, you know, chance or. Um, you know, the thing that just kind of put me into the industry, like full on was I got to be one of the co-founders of Poly Doge most successful meme going on Polygon natively, right? And so we took that to 260,000 holders in 2021 with, uh, you know, 120 million market cap on all the major exchanges and.

[7:31]That's where I got to learn how great, uh, this industry is and how I got to see both sides of it, right? Yeah. I got to see all, all the, all the great things and all the bad things, you know, all combined in one. It was quite the schoolhouse for me. And, um, and then that just kinda led to more opportunities looking at, you know, what's working, what's not.

[7:58]Then, um, I mean, I really just, uh, like I, I keep going back to looking at the problems in our industry and like how, how can we make it so that there's more win-win situations, right? How can we make it so that more people are like, what has happened since 2024 to now mm-hmm. Is just so tragic to me. The holder, the, the huddle, uh, you know, culture being gone.

[8:32]Um, you know, I don't know if you saw the stats of, of that, uh, expost that someone did the other day on Solana talking about how two years ago the average time that you would hold, the average time that was being held of for a coin on Solana was like a day and a half or something like that. Right? Yeah.

[8:52]What do you think the average time is right now? Within the minutes or seconds. It's sec, it's 60 seconds, bro. Yeah. How can you build anything off of that? That's fast. You can't, you can't, like, how, how can you, and so, you know, like, like I never, we would've never been able to build poly doge the way that we did in 2021.

[9:13]Right? That that never would've happened without. Without everyone in the community pulling together and actually having a very active community, building that brand and building the presence and you know, everyone, um, you know, working together. Now, not everybody, you know, I'm not naive, right? Not everybody was working together when we got to 120 mil.

[9:33]I mean, you had some of the, the people you thought that. We're like the, the biggest champions of, of, uh, of the coin that just dumped on us, you know, just, just horrendously dumped on us. And, um, that was a big wake up call for me because, um, you know, I, I, I, I'm definitely the, the eternal optimist you could say.

[9:57]And so, um. Yeah, it broke your worldview at that point of the, of something, right? Yeah. Like you were like, okay. Like I could, yeah, I mean, I, I really, I really felt, I really felt that everybody that we were working with, we all had that integrity. We all, you know, like made that agreement together, Hey, you know, once we get to certain points, we're only taking out a certain amount because we wanna get to higher valuations and, um, nah.

[10:28]Nah. That did not. That did not happen. Yeah. And I'm sure learning that, like that experience probably taught you so much about how you've then continued to build in the space from that, right? Like mm-hmm. The like kind of trust but verify kinda aspect of blockchain. I'm sure that's like even more appealing to you.

[10:48]Um, kind of after seeing all that, I'm curious like. What you think of like, okay, you said you can't build, like you guys did build in that environment in 2021 now. Um, I'm curious what your thoughts are of like, how a project can be successful in this like, time, you know, so, so this is something that we're actually, we've actually been thinking about.

[11:14]A ton right now at Ryft, and especially with how everything is moving agentic. Basically if you have a, a claude, you know, coding subscription, like, uh, you know, the $200 subscription, you basically build most anything that you would want. Now. So when, when it comes to, what are the moats that are out there now? Like where?

[11:40]So one, once, once anyone can create anything. Once, uh, once there's a point where, um. Yeah, software is not as valuable. Where do you go next? And where you go next is, you know, community curation. Right? Also, another thing is you're looking at the way that you tell your story, the way that your brand is built.

[12:09]Like those, those things that. Are not hard. I mean, that, that are extremely hard to copy because it's so embedded within, you know, the culture that you curate and develop. Right. And then the other thing, so this is, this is one thing that, that we've seen and we think is really exciting is that with agents, right, agents are going to dominate.

[12:37]Trading, they're gonna dominate, you know, pretty much every interaction you'll have a human behind a agent that is doing all kinds of different interactions and trading and, um, you know, e every, every type of thing that they could, you know, possibly do on chain, right or off chain. And so with agents, they don't have the same emotions as we do, right?

[13:04]We can actually direct them and guide them into better outcomes of what we wanna see for the future, right? Whatever we optimize for those agents to do, they will compound on it to infinity. And so for us at Ryft, what's very important is that we build products and systems that are ready for this age agentic era.

[13:32]And that can compound the right things, right, make more positive sum games. And so that's really what we've been focused on and focused on. Okay, so if we can help change these behaviors, right, and create the right incentive and reward structures called mechanism design, um, then we can actually lead to. A much better environment in our industry using agents.

[14:02]And so that's the big opportunity that we have right now. Um, you know, we're not, we're not like stuck in this box where now we're just going to PVP each other to death and. And I'm telling you, if, if you incentivize your agents to just do that, that's what's gonna end up happening right in the market.

[14:20]They're just gonna PV, PPVP, each other to death, PVP, all these different, you know, think about the 60 sec hold. It'll be even less than that, right? Because of the amount that they'll be moving across, but the speed at which you can take it and make a transaction. Yeah. The speed at which you can make a transaction, the speed at which you can attract the, the speed at which you can, you know, um, collude around many different agents, you know, across something.

[14:49]Yeah. And so that, uh, that we, we, we want to, we wanna build. A completely different model away from that. Right. And so, so kind of like our, I guess some people call it our top secret or our, um, you know, it's like our, our next big build, our flagship build, you know, the build that, that we've been building behind the scenes and getting ready to release.

[15:21]Um, that that's what a lot of those different mechanics are about. It's about, you know, making sure the agents. Have special parameters. You know, they're, they're incentivized and rewarded to do positive, some outcomes. Anyone can engage with it, anyone can participate. And then because you're participating, you actually get rewarded for doing so.

[15:44]And it actually kind of, um, it's kind of breaking these boundaries or barriers away from these. Areas in Defi that most people are not aware already that that exist or even have access to Usually most, most of your big players, they know all this stuff and they know what's happening behind the scenes when it comes to the movement of liquidity, arbitrage, different things like that.

[16:09]And so we're gonna be democratizing a lot of those different systems. I love that. I think that's so important, the positive sum outcomes part of that, I think one of my favorite things about this community and what got me so excited was. I was blessed when I was in Portland, Oregon, actually, um, in 2022 to meet some awesome people focused on, um, a DAO out there, but very much the just regenerative community, um, as opposed to the, the Degen community and that Regen community got.

[16:40]Me really excited about what was possible with the tech and solely the tech and not like the hype cycle part of crypto. And I think a lot of people get excited about the hype cycle, but I was blessed and, and a lot of regen, uh, like now regen like got into it for some reason or another because of, um.

[16:59]A hype cycle in one, in one way or another. Um, and some people like continued to chase those. And then some people like pop into like, okay, like I found my way to make the world better. Like, like you said, positive, some interaction. So that's super exciting to, to hear that you're working on how we, as we in an agent agentic world, are gonna start becoming more of this PVE type mentality where it's player versus the environment of like.

[17:27]Making the world a better place as opposed to the past, you know, hundreds of thousands of years. Yeah. That's always been PVP. Right. There is a way, one of the things I've seen from like the Web3 space, and I'm curious like your take on this part of it, 'cause this is mm-hmm. My favorite is the fact that. If my country, whatever it is, starts to go to war with another country.

[17:51]But we have teammates over there and consumers and builders, right, in all of these different places, I'm way more incentivized for us to all, um. Think cooperatively. Right. And I think language barriers are being broken as well as international money barriers being broken. Mm-hmm. And all of these kind of combining with the internet and angen internet.

[18:14]Um, I think there's a crazy powerful opportunity to do something that's never been able to be possible at any time in history because of many gaps being, um, brought down in like the, like you said, democratizing everyone opportunity. So I would love to know like. Where you see that international like community, uh, making that much of a difference?

[18:38]Well, so this kind of goes back to, uh, some of, um, some, some of my previous background. So, um, I don't even know if I've talked about this recently, but, um, so in 2013, I, I was, uh, I was kind of like, um. It, quote unquote, on my, on my deathbed, right? So like, I have a major chronic illness for my service in the Marine Corps, and so I'm a hundred percent disabled veteran.

[19:07]You, you may, you, you wouldn't be able to tell, right? Because I, I hide it so well. Like I, I am in pain 24/7. It is, it is tough, right? It's tough, but. But I get to make a choice each day, whether I be a victim to the circumstances or be empowered by it. And in 2013, uh, one of my favorite franchises is Final Fantasy.

[19:32]I love Final Fantasy ever since I was a kid. And Final Fantasy, a realm reborn, which was the M-M-O-R-P-G. Um. So they, they, they redid, they redid this, uh, this MMORPG, right? I played, I played it in like, I think it was in 2010 that I played it a little bit. So I kind of knew how the game worked before they did like the redo.

[19:57]And so here I am and just excruciating pain. I'm like, I need something to take, take my mind off this pain. And so I end up, uh, I end up, you know, playing, playing this game and. I get to be like one of the very first people in the world at 3:00 AM in the morning on this server, right? And I think to myself, I go, okay, what am I gonna do?

[20:22]Uh, like how, how can I establish myself, you know, in this virtual world? And so I decide, okay, I'm gonna be the server first, top level miner, because I knew from the previous game. That if you were able to like get resources, you could, you could really kind of work your way, like be being able to craft different things and all that.

[20:48]Right. And um. And so I, I start, I start, you know, just mining virtually with this pickax all day. It's like 13, 14, 15 hours a day. I'm just doing this. Right. And people, and, and there's, and you know, and, and there's a lot of people playing this game. There's hundreds of thousands of people around the world they're playing this game.

[21:06]And I'm just going around just, you know, just hitting all these different, you know, mining nodes and, um. And so I'm, I'm working on it, I'm working on getting up there, and eventually I get to the point where I'm the highest level right of, of minor, and all the crafters, they're trying to come up, you know, at the same time as the servers, you know, they're trying to get to higher, higher gear, higher gear, best in slot gear for that particular level to go do the.

[21:32]Bigger raids. Um, they have to come to me for the resources because I'm the only one that can go mind that stuff, right? And so I start, you know, giving them their, giving them all this stuff, giving it, giving, giving. And uh, and then eventually I get to this point and it's maybe like within a week and a half I get to this point where, um.

[21:57]Like literally, I'm the only one that I, I actually can control the prices of all of these different assets. And so I have like spreadsheets, right? I have spreadsheets of, of the different items that I'm the only one the entire, uh, this whole server can actually get this item. And so, so I start, uh, I start negotiating with other, like with the crafters, right?

[22:20]So I'm negotiating with the crafters. So it's almost like I'm creating my own, like, you know. Flea market Mar Yeah. Like mar market guild. Yeah. You know, trade guild kind of thing. Right. And what ends up happening, which is really just wild, is that, um, because I, I I end up, I end up getting, you know, server first level 50 minor.

[22:44]Um, and, uh. Because I'm controlling so much of this, these resources that these crafters need, I end up being the most wealthy player on the entire server. Right? Yeah. So like I have more, I have more, I, I could literally buy anything in the game that I'd ever want, right? And, and then some. And so what I decide to do is since I have these relationships with all these different crafters and artisans and other people, they're in these different skills.

[23:13]I create a guilt. And we call it the order of due. Why do we call it the order of due? Well, we call it the order of due because there's, there was this guy that was trying to beat me to level 50, a minor, and we thought he was a bot because it was like 24 7. He was just going and, and he, he barely would talk to us and we found out it was like two people that were, you know, on that account going back and forth, back and forth.

[23:37]I still beat 'em though. I still beat 'em to level 50 server, which is crazy. Right. And, um, so call it the order a due. That guy actually ends up join the, the two people on that account, they actually join us. But, um, but what we did with this trade guild is very fascinating for, um, I guess you could say like, uh, social experiment because there's this law that's called the law consecration.

[24:05]Have you ever heard of it? I have not. Do you wanna explain it? So it's a, it's a social order and construct where. Everybody contributes. It's, it's not communism. It's not communism. It's, it's where everyone has a high level of skill within certain things. They all contribute to the whole, and then they all, they all are able to benefit from each other.

[24:31]Like you, you don't, you don't necessarily the one plus one equals three kind of mentality. Yes, yes. Very, very positive. sum type of, uh, social structure. And so when I did that with this guild, I implemented. The law of consecration among this, this group, there's about 500 of us around the world. We ended up being the most powerful guild in the entire game.

[24:55]That's pretty crazy. Yeah. And, uh, and so, so I kind of go back, I, I think about that social experiment and I think, okay, what would that look like on a higher scale? Like, what could we do on a higher scale? And, and the, and the thing is to, to get to that level. You actually have to, you have to do behavioral models because it has to be completely voluntary as well.

[25:25]Completely voluntary, yeah. It's not coerced, it's not forced. Everyone has to volunteer to be a part of that type of system. With agents, we can kind of move 'em in different layers across that stack. Yeah. And teach them through different, um, you know, incentive structures on how to do something like that.

[25:50]I'm not saying that RYFT is gonna do the law consecration for the markets, so I'm not saying that. Yeah. What I am saying is that we, we are kind of going a step below that, but it also would completely transform the way the markets work right now and, and kind of, you know, create. Different opportunities, um, where you're not having this mass extraction, you have a lot more options at your disposal, right?

[26:21]So like one, one big option, right? One big option. And you know, maybe this is some alpha, for anyone that's watching, one big option is OTC, right? Being able to trade peer to peer, um, you know, any type of token. It's not necessarily. If you OTC, it's when you, OTC, when you look at traditional markets, 80%, 80% of traditional markets Trade O tc.

[26:48]Yeah. Right Now. Why? Because of the options for that secondary liquidity and also being able to make it so that you're not, you know, hurting the chart. Right. And, and this is something that. The vast majority of this space, we have amms, we have all these other, you know, types of liquidity structures. We have some people, you know, getting innovative with other types of liquidity structures, you know, within LPs and, you know, single side stake and you know, all, all, all these things.

[27:25]But there are major benefits on having. Different tooling and being able to do that peer-to-peer liquidity exchange. And so that's just one mechanism that makes these types of systems that I'm talking about work, because then you can do it where it's no slippage, no price impact, um, you know. It can be completely private even, right?

[27:53]So, you know, no one knows that you actually were the one that traded that asset. And so you have this dynamic flow across, you know, different, um, you know, different assets in the space. Right now, the way that it looks is that most of OTC you have to have, you know, maybe. $50,000 a, a trade, like on a major OTC desk, you know, there's not very many options for the regular, you know Yeah.

[28:24]Person that is actually probably gonna get hurt more than someone that already has a, you know, a lot of liquidity in all the other, you know, has, has access to all these other options. Right. So, so that's just, that's just one piece of the puzzle. That we're thinking about when it comes to how do you create more positive sum games within the market?

[28:48]And that's another thing like, so with, with Ryft over the last two years, you know, we built, we built products, we have our, our DRyft, you know, platform where you can create hybrid NFTs off any token on base eth BSC, you know, polygon, um. The, the thing is, is that for those types of markets or those types of tools to have the right amount and demand so that they're even more valuable tools, they're valuable tools, valuable for utility, valuable for conviction and commitment on chain, but to make it so that the velocity of the liquidity can actually move and, you know, be dynamic.

[29:34]Um, that's what. We're building now, we're actually building the foundation that makes it so that all the other products that we've developed so far make sense. Because you all have the demand, you have the liquidity, you have, uh, you know, uh, a ton of willing participants. And so that was the big breakthrough over the last like six weeks that we really had to come to.

[30:04]We had to have come to grips with. At Ryft was like, okay, these products are great, they have good utility, but for it to really be that powerful flywheel, you have to have the counterparty. A hundred percent. And, and that counterparty really, really is kind of non-existent for these types of products right now, especially with NFTs.

[30:29]I mean, think about it, you got Magic Eden that just shut down everything, right? With, with NFTs. And so with our next big iteration of what we're doing, I mean, NFTs will definitely be on the map again, but they're gonna be used in a, in a utility way that is. It just makes so much more sense and we can build off of that core and just fully expand it.

[30:55]And then all the products we built before, they make all the sense in the world. And it's not like, oh, I'm just waiting for, you know, waiting for some type of liquidity. The demand's gonna absolutely already be there. Totally. No, I love that. I think it's when you don't have, uh, the market conditions for your products, you're gonna make them right.

[31:17]And I think that's such a powerful, um, statement. It's like, you know, uh, we know these are powerful. We're going to create that demand that is gonna be there for what we've created. So I love that. I think it's super beautiful. I'm really excited a, to try it out and then really. Uh, play around with it.

[31:35]'cause I know there's a lot of people in our, on Jane music community that have, um, that have been really in that space of like wanting to bring a positive, some energy from NFTs and bring NFTs back in that capacity as well. So, um, I think there's gonna be a lot of people really excited. Um, I'm excited to, to make some, some more, uh, dRyfts and, and get involved, uh, more as you kinda come into this next phase of what you guys are building.

[32:03]Where can people get to find you, um, on the different places? Where are you most active? I mean, we're, we're most active in the telegram in, you know, our, on the on X. Um, we're starting to get a little bit more active on our discord right now. We're, we're really ramping up for the big reveal. So we're putting all of those different pieces together for what is coming with this, uh, I, I guess what we're calling internally the flagship product, right?

[32:36]The flagship project product. That kind of just drives everything forward because now when you make dRyfts in the future with this product that we're about to release, you will have demand already there. You're not going to have to go and find a, a, a, you know, a bunch of different people. Like, Hey, you know, go and get this or get that.

[33:00]The demand is already going to be there. From the incentives, the reward structures, uh, the ways that the agents are, are working within our system. Everyone, you know, the agents that, that, you know, people are bringing to our, to our system and we will. Keep leak leaking more and more information. As, as you know, we get closer and closer to, you know, the, uh, the testing because we're gonna do a full on testing, right?

[33:29]So there'll be private testing, there'll be public testing, uh, you know, several different testing tranches that's, uh, that you'll be able to test, you know, with your agents and see how it all works. And, um, and then, you know, position yourself and get yourself ready. For when we open the main floodgates, and I wish I could say what I have in my mind, but I, I'll just say this.

[33:56]The way we're positioning this product, it will already have an existing funnel at the start. So we're already, we're already beach heading into areas of the market that already have flow that we can directly tap into, which. Is unique. It's, it's, it's rare that you can find an opportunity where you can actually tap into something existing, build the first frameworks and testing from that, and then build on top of that.

[34:28]Right. I love that. I think that's such a, uh, inspiring thing to be. Trying to aspire towards. Um, I think it's, uh, really, like, I'm excited. Uh, we'll definitely be around for our, uh, for as much as, as we can and sharing that out. I think everyone getting their own agent is a big thing. Uh, that as well as just getting more into vibe coding and being more comfortable with that is a big thing I've been pushing.

[34:55]And I think for all of the non-technical folks out there, um, the first thing you can do is try and, uh, and like Jordan said here, um, get ready. Um, 'cause the Ryft is coming and, uh, and you better watch out. So thank you so much for coming on, Jordan. Um, I appreciate you spending your time here. Um, I'm super excited for what's to come.

[35:15]We'll definitely have to get you back on, um, as we dive into more, uh, of the, the product and as it comes out over. Yeah. Thank you bro. I, I, I would, uh, I would love to be on and we can actually demo. This new product, once we make it public, once we're making it public, I mean, during the public testing phase, right?

[35:35]We could go through it and be like, this is the reason we chose this. This is what this is, this is what this is. Mm-hmm. It's extensive build. Perfect. This is not, this is nothing like our MVP. I'll just say that the, the MVP is, it's like one 100th of, of. You know what, uh, what this is awesome. That's why, that's why it's taking, it's, yeah.

[35:59]It's, it takes time to build something that's this robust, this interconnected, so many different pieces. Um, you know, really making, well, making it simple too, right? Like it's. It's complex on the back end, but cut simple front on the front end. I mean, very, very simple. Like we're using Banker, you know, shout out Banker.

[36:22]We're using Banker Terminal, you know, through different ways that, that we're managing some of the, the ui. I mean, we've, we've got, we've probably got, uh, at least 15 different types of, of. Existing infra that's already being integrated into the whole stack. So I mean, we're, this is, yeah, it's, that's awesome.

[36:48]It's sweet. Oh yeah, well, we'll definitely get you on for a demo as we get closer to that public phase. And, uh, I'm excited to see, uh, what you guys got coming down the pipeline. Feel free to always reach out. I'm always, uh, available to share stuff and, uh, it was, it was a blast chatting today. So thank you again for, for coming on.

[37:08]Thank you for anyone who's watching this or jumped into live. Um, have a great rest of your guys' day. Peace. Take care.