Nikoline Arns · Hubs Network

[0:08]Up. What's up everybody? Welcome to another Better call. Zaal yapz? I'm here Nikoline. How are you doing today, Nikoline? I'm doing wonderful. It's here already. Afternoon in Barcelona, so. You had a very sunny day already. Yeah, it's, it's sunny day here too. It's starting to get into that, um, that spring vibe.

[0:29]I think the, the energy is up all, all around here. Um, it's great to have you on today. I'm really excited to chat a little bit more with you about what you guys are building with the, with the plural events here all over the globe. And would love for you to give us a, a little intro on who is Nico Lean and, and how did you get here?

[0:50]Uh, okay. Yeah, let's try to summarize it quite a trip, but it's okay. Um, yeah, I basically, I don't come really from like, uh, Web3. Originally I'm, I started to be a designer, um, which basically. Maybe fits with questioning everything and trying to improve it. So I come from there and I did a lot of, um, offline communities building.

[1:14]So we set up like a school. I did, um, found like a coworking in, um, one neighborhood in Barcelona. And from there I rolled into the Web3 because we were already dealing with, uh, governance models like sociocracy and other ways to make decisions in big groups. For example, with the school was like about like 200 people and we set up a Socratic governance system, uh, from the get-go.

[1:41]Like nobody did that before. So we, we started that together and it was very amazing. Do you wanna just explain what that is? Uh, what those words mean? Uh, sociocracy is. Basically a framework, like a tool set for governance, for decision making. So, um, it's, if you would see it as holocracy, which is used a lot in the startup world, that's kind of like a stripped out version of sociocracy.

[2:09]Um, but it's a fractal way to grow in specific like circles that area that have a specific domain. Which makes a certain level of autonomy within that domain possible. So it's kind of actually faster to make decisions together, even though it seems very tedious with all these meetings and stuff. But in the end, it's, it's, yeah.

[2:35]Well it's, it's can go very fast. Yeah. No, that, that's awesome. I think there's so much. Um, in the way of human coordination that Web3 brings. So it's cool to see that, um, on that, uh, that bigger level, right, of how can we, uh, get this concept, uh, to, to, to actually work in reality, right? Yeah, exactly. That is also where I came from because.

[3:00]I mean, even Web3, not Web3. Digital, not digital. In the end, we all, uh, it's all groups of humans. Yeah, exactly. It's just different commun, you know, communities coordinated group offline and you learn how to do it with people. And then I got to know, uh, the Web3 world. Um, basically I think the first project that I learned about was Akia Foundation, and they were building, uh, that moment, like a social, um, yeah, social media.

[3:26]But completely decentralized. And yeah, of course I completely fell in love with, uh, everything that, that was there as concepts because it completely fitted already with what a lot of people here in Catalonia are doing. And I figured that they don't, they are doing the same things with the same values, but they don't know how to talk to each other.

[3:46]They speak a different language. And I really wanted to bring these people together. Um, because yeah, there's so much we can learn from people that are working on the ground with real communities and real projects and people that are trying to scale everything up, uh, for the better in the digital space.

[4:03]So yeah, that is what I decided to do, and I was happy that Lorenzo from Nasha Hub, uh, he saw their potential. So we. We kind of, he needed someone to boost up the, the hub which was created for the Web3 community, basically, especially Ethe in Barcelona to come together. And we did that the first two years was there to, to spice it up the hub and to put it a bit on the map.

[4:31]And we did a lot of events. Um, and from there. Yeah, roll into other projects and now we are connecting different hubs like Akasha Hub, but also in the countryside in Europe, and to create systems so they can actually more depend on each other than depend on big grants or outside company funding and all this kind of stuff.

[4:53]That's awesome. I love that. It, it, it just aligns so well with everything we've been doing at the Zow here for the last few years, trying to find ways to bring that, uh, money back to independent artists. And like you said, the best way to do it is the peer to peer conversations, um, as opposed to individual to big corporation.

[5:12]Right. Because yeah, there tends to be different, um. Wants and needs when you, um, scale up. So when you look at the, the granular, the individual, it's a lot easier to find an individual here, find an individual here, and find a way for them to align versus trying to align tons of individuals together. Right.

[5:33]So it's really cool to hear more about how you're kinda idea started and how you wanted to improve that coordination side. And then you guys started doing it locally and then expanded from there. Um, do you wanna share with us what, what the hubs network is? What you guys have been building for the last few years?

[5:51]Uh, yeah. I mean, last a year actually. It's not even Wow. That old as a, as a actual operational projects. Of course, the, the idea is there already since basically, uh, Akasha Hub started. Uh, because in the network there is a lot of, uh, amazing and visionary people that all also started their own space, uh, in their own countries.

[6:14]So between all these, um, these people, there was already like a kind of natural collaboration going on and when thinking a lot about how can we actually make this better and share the knowledge openly, so it has more effect, uh, outside of, of the spaces that we are in. Um, so yeah, it's, it's, the idea existed a very long time and now we started to actually make it go full on and create frameworks and systems so we can, uh, work better together.

[6:43]And if you would imagine how that could work, uh, we decided on some kind of actions, um, that all the hubs share. It's basically everybody does events. Uh, everybody, uh, is usually like receiving people from the community to work on specific projects. And, uh, there is also, of course, communication and things like that.

[7:05]And that sounds really, uh, down to earth. But we are all doing this in a way that, uh, is collaborative and, uh, everybody has their own inputs and ideas and their space for, for all this to happen. That's awesome. Is it, um, so the hubs network, is that someone anyone can join from anywhere across the world?

[7:25]Are there specific specifications that you guys are looking for in individuals? Um, I mean it's uh, it's two things. It's mostly like the hubs themselves. They are actually physical spaces. So there we really support those physical spaces where that are designed for people to come together to really, um, also from artistic point of view and like bring.

[7:45]People together that are thinking differently and creating the future. Um, and yeah, we, the criteria, uh, is more in the sense of mentality rather than discipline. So we have, for example, maker spaces, hacker spaces, uh, co-living, echo villages. So there is like, uh, a different kind of areas, but the mentality is always to, to create something that is, goes beyond your self interest.

[8:12]Yeah. And to open source the, yeah. I mean, open knowledge sharing. There needs to be some willingness to, to share those with the other hubs. And from there we go, uh, we can just, uh, can just approach the network. Uh, we have like community calls every month where you can be welcome and, uh, share what space are you running and why and how.

[8:35]And we'd like to share all these stories together so we can learn. Yeah. That's awesome. I think it's, you know, like I was saying, is super aligned. One of the things I'm trying to do out here in Maine is start our hub here, um, for Web3 and just overall, um, emerging technology development, um, especially in more rural areas.

[8:58]Is, um, is sometimes a challenge with distributing out information. So, um, I really like the power of the knowledge sharing, not only within the hub to its local community, but then its hub to other hubs across the world. And, um. You know, having that open mind to hear about what someone halfway across the world is doing and how something that they're doing might be something that's completely foreign to a community around you, but it might be something or, or a way that they're doing something that's more effective than you've ever thought of.

[9:29]So I think it can be really powerful. Um, that's my favorite part of the. Of the space of Web3 is getting that international community and the international, um, thought of anyone from anywhere can give their thoughts and their opinions and support, um, the progress and, and add value into an organization.

[9:48]So, um, I think it's, it's really cool to hear, um, about your guys' hubs. You guys have been doing it only for the last year. Do you wanna share, um, I know you're out in Barcelona. That's where the first hub started. Do you wanna share some of the, the other major hubs, um, or, or some of the first ones that kind of joined along?

[10:05]Uh, sure. What they offer? Yes. Um, so in Europe there is like already some like, uh, big established, uh, hubs. Uh, one of them is, for example, liminal Village. Uh, this is like one, uh, one hour outside of, uh, Rome, uh, in the countryside. And that's really like, uh, a place where you can also stay and sleep and doing different projects.

[10:29]Um, it's, uh, many of the, the thought leader that really think about system change, economics systems, new society structures. Uh, they have been. Passed by there. And, uh, touched by Roberto, which is, uh, one of the core people, uh, actually in this, uh, area of the web tree. And, uh, there is also, uh, in Vienna, like one hour out of Vienna.

[10:56]Also with the train, you can go to the commons hub, uh, which is also like in the, in the middle of the mountain. It's, uh, it's wonderful. Uh, I just came from there actually. Ah, that's awesome. We did, we did a hack hub, which is like a building, a sauna and a hot tub. Oh. It comes together to actually help out with specific needs in exchange for staying there.

[11:18]And, uh, you know, meeting, I, I really like that. I find that, uh, in America. There is sometimes a challenge with the individualism that is just pressed upon our culture. Honestly, I think that I find a lot more people in Web3 when I have a conversation, um, with people in Europe, people in Africa, people um, outside of the states, they find a way to.

[11:44]Bring the community together for a collective good, right? Like you just said, come together, build something that everyone can then use. Um, but I do find a challenge in seeing that culture in America today just based on, you know, X, y, Z reasons. But I think, um, it's cool for individuals to hear. Uh, what is happening elsewhere across the world and the fact that that is not necessarily normal, right?

[12:10]And, and the norm is that everyone kind of comes in, pitches in and supports this community. So it's cool to see and hear about other groups and organizations that are doing that, making that coordination effort happen. And then actually looking then at, at the data behind all that, instead of just saying, okay, like, this is what we're doing and this is how we're doing it, but like.

[12:31]This is why we're doing it this way, and this is how you somewhere else can also implement these same ideas. Yeah, you're spot off. I mean, this is like the uniqueness that we find ourselves in this space, especially with Ethereum. I think that that's the mindset. Like, uh, even big events like Defcon or like in Denver or like any, like big conferences, even in the United States, people are coming and volunteering and building it together.

[12:57]Like it's, it's really like a community effort. And it's, uh, very natural to this space. I feel very fortunate to be in that. And that is also with the, with the spaces. I mean, a lot of the things, uh, that we are building, that I'm sure you are experiencing, especially if you are trying to build new systems and very future thinking and changing society.

[13:19]And doing things differently, but you still have to deal with like whatever, rent or filing your taxes or like, you know, like, uh, the system, uh, things that we have. So when you're building these physical hubs, you, you find yourself in this limbo between, uh, the two systems nor the one that you are building towards and the one that you are also need to deal with.

[13:39]So it's a kind of unique space and, uh, from my experience, the people that are running those hubs, uh, they have a very. Amazing qualities to, to, to do that because it's a very hard job to, to do. And if they can share experiences that's already worth everything, you know? Um, and it really helps. It really helps.

[14:01]Definitely. That's awesome. I love it. It, it sounds like you guys have, uh, I, I always like saying, uh, success is the progressive realization of a worthy ideal. And I think you guys are so, um, on that track of knowing where you wanna go and being consistent towards that goal. So I would love to hear, um, a little bit more about these events you guys got going on.

[14:25]Um, a I know of, uh, an event's coming up, but then b um, how you guys organize your events, uh, with these hubs across the world. Would love for you to, to share a little bit more and tell us, uh, you know, how, how, how these events get, uh, organized and, and what the reasoning for that is. Uh, yeah, the, how it's organized it, I mean, we called it Plural Events because it's basically started from, uh, a collaboration that we have already going since the beginning of Akasha Hub, uh, with the Radical Exchange, uh, and Audrey Tongue.

[14:59]Um, yeah. I really liked the formats that they have in radical exchange to kind of like invite different people for one topic that not necessarily agree with each other and then make this discussion happen, right? So you have different viewpoints and I was. Thinking together with, uh, Charles as well from the Zurich, um, chapter of Radical Exchange and Malik, uh, from Radical Exchange Foundation.

[15:25]Like how can we like, kind of like scale that concept up into different countries, different cultures, and really have different, uh, opinions about one topic and bring that together and see what that looks like. So we started to organize that in a very simple way. Like, oh, let's just do it with three and we just pick one topic and one date.

[15:44]And we do it on the same day and see what happens. And it's kind of like, uh, it went pretty viral. The first one we wanted to do just a mini pilot with three, and then in the end there were 12, uh, chapter leads. Oh yeah. We also wanna do it and. It kind of happened like, uh, there was just one Excel.

[16:02]Everybody puts their stuff and their dates and their location and organizing and it was actually pretty smooth. And now we are doing the fourth pilot and we actually have more sponsors and more collaborations here. So I'm super happy, especially because the kind of, um, organizations that's really already sharing a lot of values, uh, they really came together.

[16:24]So we have radical exchange of course. Then Web3, privacy now, and also logos, uh, is there. So yeah, we can, we can really like build up something, uh, with these communities together. It would be really cool. That's awesome. So, um, do you wanna share a little bit more about this upcoming event? You said it's your fourth event.

[16:47]Um, do you wanna share, you know, I, I know you said that that first one kind of the scope creep came, but that's always what happens, right? When, when you're planning events, um, that first one you guys had 12 communities, 12 organizing leads. Um, where are you guys at with this upcoming one? Um, what, uh, how much time do we have left until it, what is, uh.

[17:09]If someone across the world, somewhere out there, um, hears this and is excited and wants to organize an event in their city, what's the process for them? Uh, yeah. And the, we have the next, uh, date is the most important thing is the 14th of May and, uh, exactly a month from today. Perfect. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[17:28]That's cool. And then exactly one month after we have like, uh, a presentation on a big, uh, neo cyberpunk summit of Web3 privacy now that is happening in Berlin, which is very exciting, uh, place to be. Anyway, uh, and we have a panel there to present the outcomes of this pure event. Wow. So if you are participating, you also, you are contributing, uh, with your opinions about this topic in like a very big audience in Berlin, uh, which is very exciting.

[17:56]Um, and yeah, so the 14th of May, uh, if you care about, talk about democracy and different tools and how, or can you actually solve your local challenges. Um, then get in touch with our, we have a telegram group specifically for plural events. You'll find a lot of other organizers there as well. We already have a template for Luma, so it will be very low boundary for you to set up your own event.

[18:22]And even if you, if you just get like 15 people ready together and even you talk in a bar and have the conversation, uh, that's already worth it. So you don't even need to have a venue or anything like that, although it helps if you have it, but if you don't, it doesn't matter. Awesome. It's about the, the variety of people that we, we can gather here.

[18:41]Yeah. No, I think that that's the really cool thing. One of the conferences I went to earlier this year had a tool where all of the side conversations that were happening were being ingested by AI into a knowledge graph. And I think that the power of now taking conversations that are being had in various places all over the globe and now synthesizing that.

[19:05]Into a document or something that you can review or a piece of content that you can share out of, like, this is as the hubs network on 15th of May. This is like the synthesis of our community, what we talked about today. I think it can be really powerful. And the tools, um, are there now where, where it may have been a little bit more challenging in the past to to do it all on your own especially, and then also.

[19:31]With the open source tools to potentially create something that then gets propagated to all of the other hub leaders, right? If I go in and create something that's a net benefit for, for my, my event. Um, and, and it's all open source. It's something that, you know, you change a few words out and you can launch for every single other hub that's out there.

[19:51]So I think it's, it's really cool to hear the. Alignment the way you guys have organized and created this really fancy and special thing out of just conversation, human conversation. And I think that's something that people sometimes take for granted, not realizing like how powerful some of these conversations can be and, and like what we can do then after that.

[20:14]Right. You know, we have this conversation, but then what's the action that can be taken with that to move forward towards radical change, right. Or anything else. Yeah, because the, I think it's about the diversity that for me, makes me very passionate about this because we have, for example, the, the network, uh, state school in Singapore, he is part, they are participating, but in the same time in Sao Paulo, we have someone that is with an organization with, uh, homeless people that is also participating.

[20:43]So I'm a really, really, uh. Interested in what is the differences of, for example, those two extremes or like other cultures in Europe and how we can get that together. Yeah. And yeah, what you said, the tools are very exciting, like, uh, from radical exchange, like, uh, principles. There is tools like, uh, a Agoda citizen, I'm not sure you know, it, it's like, uh, based on, I don't think so.

[21:08]It's really around like statements and conversations around specific topic, but instead, uh, I mean, and then, uh, you can analyze those conversations really in a very interesting grouping, patterns and, um. The algorithm is, uh, is kind of rewarding. More like when we come more together instead of Yeah.

[21:28]Getting more polarized. Uh, so you should check out Ako Aura Citizen. They have a really beautiful, uh, app going on. Um, we also have another fork of Polys, uh, which is context engine. They're also doing now another demo. It's more related to, uh, Web3 in the sense that you can also connect your wallet, like instead of a Google account or anything like that.

[21:51]Um, also I got, you can do it anonymously as well. So there is like very interesting tools built already around those core values that, uh, that we are all familiarly with here. So that's nice, but we wanted to keep it free for every event to register it how they want, because some of them do not even want to be recorded.

[22:09]Some do not want to include digital tools inside live conversations. Some do have a very nice dynamic between those two. So we would like to keep that free, uh, for anybody to. To even do it better or improve the process. Yeah, keep it flexible so that each individual can choose what makes the most impact in their local community, right?

[22:33]Mm-hmm. Yeah, exactly that. That's awesome. So we got the, the May event coming up on the 14th of May. Um, what else is, is next for the future of the Hubs network? What do you guys got going on? Um, any, uh, upcoming plans for, uh, more events? And then I know you, me, had mentioned you guys have a monthly call. Um, when is that normally, uh, and how can people tap in?

[22:59]Uh, yeah. We, we have like monthly community calls. Um, and we also, if you want to keep up to date on the website, uh, hubs network.org, uh, there's also a link to our substack, uh, which yeah, it's basically the newsletter, so you will know everything that's, uh, that's coming up. And there's some things in the pipeline that maybe I should not tell you yet, but I might do there.

[23:24]Uh, we are working on like a, a product for also to do residencies, uh, that I'm sure like you are more in the artist community, that you're very familiar with this, uh, concept and, um, bringing this more like to the hubs as well. Uh, with the system and, um, yeah. We'll that, that will be another, another streaming here.

[23:43]It's its own, that's its own challenge to overcome. Oh yeah, I can, I can totally get that. Um, toss that hubs network.org link down there if anyone wants to tap in, join in. Definitely, uh, worthwhile. Um, I'm having a blast seeing the community, uh, come together around this upcoming event. I would love to host one here in our, in our main area.

[24:07]Um, but even if we don't get one on this, uh, just hearing more, um, about the hubs and about how. Um, different orgs from across the world that are aligned on a specific value set can align. And I think that's really powerful. So, you know, thank you guys for, for doing what you guys do, um, being consistent, growing, coming, um, sharing, you know, your way to, to wake, make the world better.

[24:31]Um, do you wanna share how people can get in touch with you, how people can connect with you on the socials? Uh, yeah, that's good. I mean, most of the links, you're gonna find it from the, the website. Um, but yeah, I dunno if I can share some links here, or if you check maybe also the event at, uh, in Berlin, Web3, privacy Now dot, uh, let me say, I think it's in info.

[24:57]Uh, yeah, it's Web3 with a three privacy info. There you can also find more, uh, information about, uh, the summit and we're gonna be there in the panel. So that will be super interesting to, to keep following. I think they have a really great community. Uh, so yeah, you, you might Awesome. Feel home there.

[25:20]Perfect. Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing that. We got that link down below as well. Um, I'm really excited to, to hear how the events go. Maybe, um, we can have another live stream, maybe a little bit longer with some of those hosts and, um, and we can have a specific, um, you know, recap or, or something of the sorts because, um, you know, anything I can do.

[25:41]Um, to help support this, uh, this venture. I'm, I'm super, um, excited and, and wanna be as involved as I can be, and I think it'll be really powerful to come, you know, a year from now and say, you know, now, now, now where, where are we at? So, um, thank you so much for spending your time here, uh, this afternoon. It was, uh, yeah, no, I'm really excited to, to share it out more with our community.

[26:05]I think there's a lot of people who, maybe not for this event, but after this, uh. Call that may start thinking about how they can start affecting their local, um, areas, because I think that's how, that's the best way, um, for anyone to move forward more in the Web3 space. I've, I've always found a lot of luck in the IRL.

[26:25]Um, especially in the local community because it's someone you can meet every day, every couple weeks, um, as opposed to a once a month or once every few months when you meet someone at a conference. So, um, yeah. Thank you for your time, Nikoline and yeah, definitely I hope, uh, keep in touch and anything help to build up your hub and anything you need from our side just to we will 100%.

[26:47]Um, you will be hearing from me. Thank you anyone who, who's listening in or, or popped in today, um, it was a pleasure and I hope you have a wonderful day. Thank you so much Y'all. Pleasure.