Kenny · POIDH

[0:00]Decentralized energy. Let's talk about Web3

[0:05]Okay. Welcome back to another episode of Better Calls Zaal Yafs. I'm here with Kenny. How we doing today, Kenny? I'm doing fantastic. Thank you for having me, Zaal. Very excited for the discussion today. Yeah, no, I'm, uh, excited to have you. We got introduced through Maceo on, um, our Let's Talk About Eth, uh, podcast.

[0:24]You were our first guest. It was an amazing opportunity to meet you, and now over the last month plus, get an opportunity to dive more into the POID ecosystem, watch We The Media, create more bounties. Um, but yeah, I would love to just dive into you, Kenny, if you wanna give us a, you know, who is Kenny and how'd you get into crypto?

[0:44]Yeah. Yeah. Uh, thank you for the introduction. Thank you for the kind words. Shout out Maceo and We The Media for bringing us all together. If you guys haven't seen that, uh, interview too, on the Let's Talk About Eth podcast, uh, that's a really good one to catch up on, learn more about me and learn more about POID.

[1:00]But yeah, for anybody who hasn't seen that before, um, I run Picture It Didn't Happen, P-O-I-D-H. Uh, a lot of people know me from Farcaster. I'm Kenny on Farcaster, just have that single handle. Uh, Kenny is typing on X, formerly Twitter. Uh, been in the cryptocurrency space, uh, in and around it for over a decade at this point.

[1:24]Uh, wrote some articles for Bitcoin Magazine back in like 2014 era. Uh, had a food truck that took Bitcoin back in 2013 era, right? So I've always been in and around it. Um, I'm a digital marketer by trade. I do SEO. I generally do, uh, SEO for crypto clients, but also people outside of there. Um, but I was doing that, uh, in the late 2010s, and then I went full-time into crypto around 2022.

[1:51]Um, that's when I started specializing doing crypto for SE- or SEO for crypto companies, and then also when I started building POID. Um, so yeah, I've seen, seen a ton about the industry. Uh, I love this industry. I think crypto is the future of everything. Uh, I'm about as bullish on crypto as anybody you're gonna find out there.

[2:13]Um, so yeah, uh, that's, that's the quick rundown on my background. I love it. I think there's so many- pieces we could touch on, but let's give a quick, you, you shared a little bit about POID, but let's dive deeper. Mm. What is POID? What, uh, is the vision? How did you start thinking? What made you get the impetus for creating it initially?

[2:35]Yeah. So POID stands for pics or it didn't happen, so it's an acronym. Uh, it comes from an old internet saying, right? People used to use this in forums in the early 2000s, right? When, uh, somebody would say that they did something and somebody would respond, "Pics or it didn't happen," POID. Like, you have to show us some proof, right?

[2:53]So it's a takeoff on that old meme. Uh, it actually developed out of, I would say... Again, I've been in the industry for a very long time. Uh, I've always followed crypto. Like, when I wasn't full-time in the industry, I was still following it from the sidelines, following it on Twitter, et cetera. Uh, you know, participated in DeFi summer, the ICO season back in 2017, right?

[3:20]And POID did come out of, say, two different frustrations. There was the frustration, the primary frustration being that I, I was looking around and I wasn't seeing many fun, easy, accessible things that I could introduce like a family member or a friend to crypto with. Obviously, there's always the gambling side of crypto, right?

[3:44]Buy something and hope that it goes up and sell it, right? But, uh, people are... Most people generally, and I know this is wild when you talk to people in crypto, they're, they're... Everybody in crypto, like, they have a very high risk tolerance, right? When you talk, talk to most people, like, they are s- they're scared if, like, an investment they buy goes down 10%, right, overnight.

[4:05]But for a crypto person, you're like, "Yeah, it might go down 50%, might go up 2X," whatever. Like, we're so desensitized to it. Totally. And so part of it came out of recognizing that psychological issue with crypto use cases that like, "Oh, we're never gonna have good adoption if we ha- all our use cases are speculative gambling use cases," right?

[4:25]Well said, yeah. So I wanted something that I could talk to a normal person and- ... present them with this product that uses crypto technology and is only possible because of crypto technology, but that isn't speculation, right? That is actually solving, uh, real problems in the real world. And that's the other piece of this that brought me to building POID was I was thinking, and this was like 2020, 2021, 2022 era, I was trying to figure out this problem, uh, of how do you pool money to get s- things done in the real world.

[5:05]Like I, the original problem I was working through in my head was, like, healthcare systems, right? Um, because we all know that healthcare is one of the biggest problems in terms of human coordination out there. Like, everybody understands we don't have a good healthcare system, and everybody would like to see it fixed, but it's a really hard problem to solve.

[5:25]Uh, and so I was thinking on this idea of like, okay, you could have people pool money, and then anybody could submit a claim to try to get that money. But w- as soon as you do that, and you're talking about permissionless structures like this, uh, suddenly it opens this door of like, well, if anybody can throw in money, and if you had a voting system to pay out money, um, what...

[5:48]There's all sorts of attack vectors, all sorts of different ways that somebody nefarious could come in in a permissionless system and steal everybody's money, right? So I was trying to figure out what the solution would be, and I settled on this idea of having, uh, you needed to have the payouts around very specific things, very specific action items, right?

[6:10]And funding need to be, needed to be for very specific action items, because that way, the people who put money in on these things would be able to vote on whether or not the thing actually got done, whether or not what they wanted to pay for actually got done. It works in a healthcare perspective, like if you wanted to make a fund for somebody that has cancer specifically, only a person with cancer, and they would have to prove it.

[6:34]Uh, they would have to put in a sufficient claim, and people can see that evidence, and they could pay it out. But then I was thinking, well, this applies to many different things. You could do this for any sort of objective. Uh, and so that's when it became a broader- product and I started thinking about this idea of this, uh, this bounty system incentivizing anything.

[6:57]Mm. Um, there's also, uh, uh, I was thinking about the problem of, uh, you know, cities, cities that have, um, a trash and areas of the city that people wanted to see cleaned up, right? Uh, I live up here in Seattle, and it is something that, uh, a lot of people talk about. It's in the local discourse, right? You have areas of the city that are degraded with it, um, and they have, you know, there's a lot of trash laying in the freeways.

[7:27]Like, what if you could just have a specific task, a pot of money for somebody to go clean up that specific area of the city? That'd be pretty cool. And so it also came out of thinking around that. And, uh, to be frank, giving you a complete breakdown of all the different, like exactly how my mind got to this point-

[7:48]uh, led to POID, it's pretty tough to do. But these were all the things that were milling around my head. It was like- ... I know that there's an idea here around people coordinating money to get things done in real life. I generally believe that people are good, they want to see good things happen in the world, and I think that there are things with current organizat- current tools to organize money that are holding people back.

[8:19]I think crypto can be a solution here, and that's really all the th- everything I wa- I had my mind on, which then, uh, kind of pulled itself together into POID. Amazing. I love it. I think there's a lot of really cool parts to that, and the coolest is the fact that it wouldn't be possible to create POID without blockchain.

[8:41]Mm-hmm. Right? And I think that permissionless aspect of anyone being able to put up a sufficient bounty, um, which is at a minimum of, like, $2, right, right now, um, which is a- anyone could, could pool together that from something to get something done, and then someone else could permissionlessly claim to, um, receive that bounty, um, all, you know, not necessarily having all the information of who this person is other than, you know, a social profile or whatever account is connected.

[9:11]And I think that that can be really powerful, uh, in so many different ways, right? And can y- you can make one with just, like, a wallet as well, right? You don't even need to have a social profile connected. Yeah, yeah. That's something that I'm pretty proud of, uh, especially because the Ethereum Foundation, a lot of people in the industry are talking about crops these days, right?

[9:34]Censorship resistant, and, uh, privacy is part of that, right? And so while POID itself is transparent, right, you can see everything people are doing, um, somebody can come with just a wallet and they can, uh, they can submit a claim or they can add funds for a bounty, and it's just up to the social dynamics of that specific bounty, uh, for people to decide if they wanna support it or if they wanna pay that person out, right?

[10:02]Uh, you can be, um, anonymous, pseudo non, or fully doxxed, however you think is the best way to get whatever you want accomplished with POID, uh, we let you do it. I love it. Yeah. So the coolest thing about this technology is the fact that without it, things and ideas like this wouldn't have been possible. So it's really cool to see you leveraging that.

[10:26]Um, I actually recently created a bounty in the last week, uh, for one of our YouTube videos, and that's been an awesome experience. We had, um, 10 submissions yesterday. I have to check if anyone else submitted at the end of the night. Um, but that ended, so we're gonna be making a new one for this for people clipping up different parts of this video.

[10:44]And I think the really cool thing for me, and this is something we st- spoke about last time, um, is that you have to be very specific with what your c- bounty ask is. Um, and I think that is really cool because as I create more bounties personally, I'm gonna get better and better at that. And I was joking to Ohnahji, uh, when we were chatting about it, saying like, "It's kinda like that magic genie bottle, where like- Mm-hmm

[11:10]if you don't specify things, it'll get just chosen in one other way, right?" So you have to be very specific with your wishes and the grant and the ask that you're asking for. Um, and I think it'll be really cool to be able to leverage, um, this tooling in a lot of different ways. The more and more conversations I've had, um, with folks and I've mentioned POID or what it can do, people have been like, "Oh, okay, that's interesting," and have told me something that- Mm-hmm

[11:39]I hadn't been thinking about before. So I think that's another really cool thing. And it really, uh, lets the creative brain think and lets each person's creative brain be able to be leveraging this tool. So it's just like a very, uh, you know, open for all tool, something that anyone can get into, anyone can try, um, on, on both ends.

[11:58]So, um, yeah, I don't know if you wanna do, if you want me to pull up the screen, I can share the, share the screen of someone, uh, of it doing it. Um, here, let me, let me pull it up. Do it. And we can, we can give a little demo. Oh, excellent. And I, I love what you're saying about that, right? Because I've posted about that in the past, of how POID forces you to exercise that muscle that I think a lot of people- They, they don't do it, right?

[12:24]They, they think that... I think this is downstream of the fact that we aren't able to crowdfund for laser-specific things in general, um, that most human organizations you have to organize for like a... You, you pool f- money for a broad goal, and then that organization deploys that capital down below. Yeah.

[12:44]It's not really individuals thinking about the specific actions that organizations can do. And I'd find this out a lot of the time when I would ask people... I'd do these, these question-and-answer things on Farcaster where I'd say, "Hey, what is, what is the simplest thing somebody can do to improve their community?"

[13:02]Right? And people would respond, but it would be, it'd be things like, uh, you know, im- improve community happiness or educate children or, um, you know, clean the community, right? And I was like, "All right, these are good. These are br- but these are kind of broad." Like- Yeah ... laser specific, right? Like how do you break down, uh, educate children to specific auditable individual accomplishments, which is what we ask you to do with POID, and I think that's, uh, it's an important thing when we think about ad- you know, society as it progresses, how do we become...

[13:42]How do we organize society in the digital age, right? If we can become better at breaking down the things that improve society into atomic units of accomplishments, uh, tools like POID have a huge potential Yeah. That's a s- very similar vein of the industry I've been trying to attack with the ZAO, with illiquid soulbound governance tokens, and leveraging individuals continuing to participate and build in an ecosystem leading towards more governance in an ecosystem.

[14:16]I think me, I have been able to outsource tasks like deciding on a POID bounty winner or, for me, Artisan, um, uh, accepting a, a fund into, uh, a project into our fund. I've been able to outsource some of those things to our community and give, get community input for those things. So I think there is some sort of, um, lever to pull there with something like that that can be, um, you know, a smart contract, right?

[14:42]Maybe I can say when I put up the bounty that this DAO is gonna decide it, not, not me, and that could completely change the way people submit. So I think it can be really interesting to play around with that. I think, um, I liked with what you were saying earlier about, like, the specific side. Um, it reminded me of SMART goals, which SMART, uh, goals stands for specific, measurable, achievable- Mm-hmm

[15:05]relevant, and time-bound. And I think what we need is, like, a fancy word like SMART goals for, like, POID bounties. Mm-hmm. And then think of, like, POID, P-O-I-D-H, each letter meaning something- Oh, yeah ... specific, right? Like, towards, like, that can push you towards, like, this is how you should make bounties, right?

[15:26]POID bounties. Yeah. Could be interesting. Maybe a different word, right? Oh, I like it already. Depending on the word you put. Uh, yeah, I'm putting... I'm writing, I'm paying attention. I'm writing this down in my notebook here. Amazing. I love it. Uh, but yeah, no, I've been, uh, super excited to dive in more. I think my favorite things, uh, like I was saying, not even just the blockchain thing, but my favorite things in the ecosystem are things that lean towards, um, public goods and people thinking towards that.

[15:49]Um, I was super blessed to get, um... I, I came into the, um, on-chain industry in 2023, but I met a lot of people in Portland, Oregon who were very focused on the regen community and the regen side of it, and it was in person, so I was able to get the trust and verifiability of individuals, um- Mm-hmm ... in this kinda potentially scary online world.

[16:11]That also gave me, um, a completely different look at it of, like, their whole thought with the DAO that was created initially that I started j- uh, in over there, was how can we help this local community using blockchain? Like, what can we do in our local community to do that? And I think this ties super well to that.

[16:30]Um, someone has said, um, cosmo localism, and I really love that word of, like, leveraging tools like the internet and, like, resources from anywhere for a very small area because it can make that area have resources that it wasn't able to have before, and that's kinda also what I'm trying to do out here in Maine of, like, we're in a more rural area- And I'm trying to start an event and bring, you know, potential sponsors from our international community to this specific event by, you know, leveraging that, but then also hopefully adding in the live streaming aspect as well as the in-person aspect and different things there.

[17:07]So, um, I think there's so many cool ways, um, about it. Let me pull up my screen here, which is the, um, POID bounty screen, and we'll just pull up, um, we'll just pull up this one right here and see. Uh, essentially when we pop in, uh, we can come in here and see the contributors. So the POID bot put in .04, uh, five ETH, and there has been so far four, uh, or, or four total transactions, three claims created.

[17:38]So here are three different claims for this bounty, which is, um, the best bounty this month. Yeah. So it's... Yeah, I don't know if you wanna share a few words on this, um, in addition to that or anything- Mm-hmm ... about the site. Um, and then we'll pull up mine as well. Yeah, th- this one is a bit of a, a, a meta bounty, right?

[17:59]You know, we were doing... Uh, we started doing it, uh, it was like fall last year, and we were doing a hund- it was just $100 every, every month, and it's whoever comes up with the best bounty. Best bounty being measured, if you scroll up there, I think it'll say, uh, the, the bounty which inspires the most creative, whimsical, or community enriching claims, right?

[18:24]Which is, and our fancy way of just saying it's open-ended. If you make a bounty, even if it's for $3, you make a $3 bounty, but that bounty, people really dig it, they, they think it's creative and fun to upload pictures on that one, uh, you have the potential to win, right? Or you can win this with a very serious bounty, say that you make a thou- put a $1,000 bounty out there, and that also gets a ton of really good claims, uh, creative and things that- Help people understand what is possible with POID, right?

[18:59]Uh, you could win this. So really it's our, it's our internal competition that anybody can try to claim this month, and we decide, uh, at the end of the month what the best bounty, uh, we liked was and we, uh, we submit that one, that one will win the pot. And then if anybody in the POID community wants to support this initiative too, this is really a way they, they can do it.

[19:22]They can come here and add funds to this one, right? They say, "Oh, this, yeah, this is great. I wanna make sure... I don't know what bounty I wanna make, but I wanna increase- That's right ... the odds of people making cool ones." Come here, click that adds fu- add funds button, and you can throw in as little as .001 ETH.

[19:38]No, I love that. That's, uh, that's a really cool bounty. I will definitely go in and submit a couple ideas, 'cause I have ideas that I've been thinking about, but I don't necessarily think that it's what I wanna put out there. Um, so it'll be great to, to pop them on there. Um, but this is, uh, my submission, um, for my POID bounty, uh, my first one last week that I started up, and it was for Better Calls All Yapps, episode 17.

[20:05]Um, and I was a little more general with this one because I wanted to see what bounties would come in- Mm-hmm ... um, was another part of it. And I'm really excited because it's given me very specific asks now, where I'm like, "Okay, I like what this person did here that I did not even expect," but then also I can see where this person, if I had given better instructions or more context- Mm-hmm

[20:26]could have done a better job. Like they were trying here, I see that, but I didn't give a good enough guideline for them to succeed. So like that's gonna be the really interesting part about continuing this. So, um, the three things that I noticed were, um, favorite clip was a little broad. Yeah. I wanna add a time bound to that, right?

[20:47]45 to 60 seconds, where like that's what I think of when clip, but not everyone knows that. Um, posting to multiple different platforms could be its own challenge. Um, different people also posted to my YouTube, um, account with the link and, um, that was an interesting one to like add that in as an additional thing.

[21:08]Yeah. I was thinking it could be cool to add in like optional things that you can do to like get your clip out there more in our environment, right? Like here- Mm-hmm ... are different places you can go post this. Like come to our Discord and share it. We would love to see the X post and share it out more, right?

[21:25]Like that is the ultimate goal. Um- Yeah ... so yeah, no, it was a really cool, uh, awesome opportunity because we had 11 different claims. Um, 11 different people created 11 different things, which was awesome. Kenny, you added a little bit extra as well. Um, and, um, yeah, I'm excited to cook. The only thing I personally have is maybe on the desktop, um, making it a little wider Yeah

[21:52]is what I'm realizing here. I know. I mean, yeah, it always looks awkward when it's, like, just cut off halfway. Well, it's also probably because you don't have a lot of people being crazy wordy, so it's usually shorter. Mm-hmm. So you probably just don't notice it as much if you're ever on the computer. But- Yeah

[22:08]um, yeah, it might be, might be worthwhile to get it to just continue across the page. But, um, but yeah. I think this was a lot of fun, uh, to create, and, uh, it was a blast, uh, seeing all the submissions come in and then, like, just, okay, thinking, "How are we gonna iterate on this," right? Mm-hmm. Yeah, no, it's- it's very fun.

[22:28]I love that you're bringing up the points around how you write the bounty and how that tailors what people do, because it's the biggest struggle for me as somebody who has used the platform a lot. I am trying to get people to make bounties, and it's a big ask, right? That's a big ask. Thank you again for making a bounty, because you're literally asking people to give away money, right?

[22:54]Like, first off, trust me with your money, trust our- Yeah ... with your money, and then give it out to somebody. So it's much more... And there's no speculative return, right? Um, so there's all these hurdles to doing it, so it- it's big anytime somebody tries it out, and tries it out and gets a good response, which is what you did.

[23:14]I thought, uh, we got a, a lot of good clips. Shout out everybody who's been coming through. Um, these clipping bounties have been doing well. Like, I've been doing a lot of clipping bounties, so people are just knowing that they can come here to, uh, potentially get paid for this work. Um, but yeah, the hard part is that how do you write the bounties perfectly to lead people the right way?

[23:38]I think that's something else that we need to add, and I want to- You know what could be fun is a bounty writing 101 class, something. Or even just a live stream or a space. Mm-hmm. Like, thinking about it and getting it out there for especially anyone who- else who has created a, a bounty. You should just, like, reach out, reach out to each person who's created a bounty when you do create that and say, "Hey," like, "Come give your, your thoughts."

[24:00]Uh, I think that could be really powerful as well. Um, focusing on that side of the- the- the product and just, like, uh, encouraging community sharing about, like, how they think about it. Mm. 'Cause I think more perspectives you can give on something that's creative like this gives more people just, like, sparks of creativity.

[24:18]Yeah. Well, I want that, but, like, I want an agent built into- Mm ... the website, dude. It's the perfect agent use case, right, of like, you write out that bounty description, then you go- Yeah, 'cause, like, to be honest with you, I did the whole thing with my agent. So, like- Yeah. Yeah ... well, yeah. So it wouldn't be a bad idea to be able to just, like, have that natively.

[24:37]Yeah, and an agent that knows the history of the platform and is like- Do you have a skill- that you've created yet for it? There, there's a skill, um- Oh, got it ... yeah, if you go to... So, and you can actually find it. Maybe you can... Oh, wait, that's- Yeah ... here, let me, let me do a screen share real quick. Yeah, it's just your, your background there now.

[24:56]Oh, I'm sorry, I keep getting thrown off of my own background. I know. That's why I love it. Um, so if anybody who's watching, they're curious, right? There is a skill for POID that you can feed to your agent. Um, come here, you can go to the GitHub. Ah. It should be right down here, but we can build this out a bit more.

[25:19]That's what I was saying, 'cause like I'm very curious how we could play around with this. So I'll think about that when I create the next one- Yeah ... and I'll send you what I do. Yeah. And this is, this one's a bit more technical. Um, but yeah, I would love that we can add something here that's just, uh, a little, you know, clippy type of dude, uh, who when- Yeah

[25:40]you s- It's like, "I see you're making a bounty. I see you're making a public goods bounty." Yes. Do you want the, the, the five tips to write a good public goods, um, bounty? Or like he starts poking holes in it, right? And so if there was just a, you know, review and update, you, you... Because that's what I do already and what you did anyway.

[26:00]Yeah. I go to ChatGPT, and ChatGPT has my history 'cause it knows, like I'm the founder of POID. It has all my context, right? And I'll just say, "Hey, give me a, give me a bounty, a bounty description for... I want somebody to say, 'This is for POID,' and then do a kickflip over a three stair," right? And boom, it, it just writes it out.

[26:20]And so that's how easy it needs to be for people when they come to POID, is that they don't have to have everything prepped to copy/paste in here. They just type out, you know, "Give me a good clipping bounty for my next appearance," and it has all the context of what a good clipping bounty looks like, maybe even gives you examples- Yeah

[26:41]from the past bounties, um, so people know. And yeah, there's, there's so much I wanna do with it, man. It's just- Yeah, well, I would love to chat more, uh, one-on-one about those things because I am excited about that. I started a, I started a r- little bit of, uh, R&D on, uh, like z- like my POID bot before I just got frustrated and was like, "Let me just create this bounty so we can put it out," you know, rather than spending a couple of weeks trying to build this.

[27:10]Um, but I had a couple ideas that I was attacking, so we can definitely chop it up more. I think that's all great. Like the things you can do to add l- make it less friction for someone to get a bounty out there is the best thing you can do. Um, and I think, uh, yeah, I'm super excited to dive more in, uh, dive in more.

[27:27]Uh, Kenny, do you wanna share where you can best be reached, where, where people can, uh, re- or, you know, contact you, dive in more? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Best spot is always going to be on X or on Farcaster. So Kenny is typing on X, uh, just Kenny on Farcaster. Uh, you can also follow the POID accounts, POID XYZ on, uh, on X.

[27:55]And yeah, I... Like, my, my door is open. I'm looking for people who wanna collaborate. I'm looking for people who wanna make cool things happen in the real world. I'm down to support your bounties, promote 'em, give you tips and ideas. Right now, we do not have POID bot set up to help with your bounty description, but I can do it as a human.

[28:14]Yeah. I would love to help you out as founder, so I'll write your bounty description for you and help you brainstorm this stuff. But yeah, just looking, looking c- to connect with, uh, anybody who wants to make cool things happen in the real world. Awesome. Thanks, Kenny, for joining. Uh, thanks everyone who popped in.

[28:31]Uh, I see Candy popped in, Freeze popped in. I man appreciate you guys and anyone else watching. So have a great rest of your day. Thank you. Catch you later. See y'all. Thank yous all

[28:41]In the code where we set you free. Decentralized energy. Let's talk about web3