Erik and Jonathan · Fotocaster

[0:00]Decentralized energy. Let's talk about Web3

[0:08]Okay. What's up? What's up, everyone? We're back for another Better Call Zaal YapZ episode. I got Erik and JC here. How we doing today, guys? Couldn't be better, man. How are you? I'm doing wonderful. It's good to have you guys in the building with me. Um, let's just get started with some intros. We'd love to know, um, a little bit about, a little bit more about each of you guys.

[0:25]If you wanna go first, Erik, you can kick it off, and then we'll kick it to JC. Yeah, for sure. Uh, I'm Erik. Erik's over on, uh, Farcaster. It's pretty much where I spend all my time on socials. Um, I- I'm from Iowa, uh, in the US, but I'm nomadic, so I've been moving around for about three years. I'm actually in Peru right now.

[0:39]Um, mainly, uh... Well, I guess for the day job, I do, uh... I help people with their investments, um, and then I invest myself. And, um, yeah, building Fotocaster with JC, and yeah, happy to be on. Awesome. I love it. What's up, JC? What's up, Zaal? Um, just waiting for the guy with the leaf blower to pass by. Um, JC. I've been in Farcaster for...

[1:07]Since February 2024. And my entry into Web3 was as a photographer, and that originally started on Twitter, and I didn't really love the environment. And when I found Farcaster, um, I signed up and I churned. And my friend and, um, collaborator, Inceptionally, who's also a friend of Erik, DM'd me on Twitter and said, "I saw you're on Farcaster.

[1:41]Do you wanna co-host 'I Took a Photo' with me?" Hmm. And so that pulled me back in, and I never left. That's awesome. It's always cool to chat with more people on Farcaster, people building on the social network in Web3. For me, it's been a blast, uh, getting to experience. I also churned very early, and then I, uh, saw on Telegram a group chat with someone that where they were talking AI, and popped back in because that group chat had 36 people, and I was looking through the list and I was like, "Oh, interesting.

[2:36]There's a couple higher profile names here than I've s- that I've seen on Twitter that normally you can't get in contact with," right? So that has also been a big part of it for me, of like finding some really just like h- high up there individuals that, um, you can actually interact with on a day-to-day basis as a, a, a solo builder here, like myself.

[2:50]So, um- Zaal, let me, let me tell you quickly. So like the Web3 question, right? Um- Yeah ... so I've been in crypto since 2017, in- investing in the space, but got, you know, a lot more active in like 2020, 2021. Um- Makes sense ... and then joined Farcaster in January 2023, so like o- over three years ago now. And I found it through like, you know, my just curation of newsletters, and I've never left.

[3:20]Um, and I've actually leaned in more just because of all the high signal people that you meet there. Exactly. And also all of, you know, there's so much creativity from different artists. And so in January 2023, that was back when you had to DM Dan on X- ... to get, like to get an invite. It was before it went permissionless that later that fall.

[3:51]And, um, it actually ties into what we're doing with Fotocaster because I was using, uh, like I never thought of myself as a photographer at all when I joined back in 2023. Mm-hmm. Like I didn't even have a camera or anything. Um, and but I was, I was nomadic already, and I was using Farcaster as an outlet to share like- Journal almost

[4:15]random like iPhone photos from around the world, right? Yeah. And just like, this was back when you might get like one or two likes on your cast, and one of them's Dan, and then you're having just like a little back and forth conversation. Super, uh, like, you know, tight community and, and, and it stays that way today.

[4:36]So, um, but yeah, I was using it as an outlet and then I like met all these just incredible photographers on Farcaster over the last few years, um, which has led into, you know, what we're doing here with Fotocaster, so. By, by the way- Come full circle ... Erik was one of our first photo contest backers for I Took A Photo.

[4:58]Hmm. And that's how we met. That's really cool ... shit, I didn't even re- I didn't even remember that, JC. We didn't have, like, we didn't have enough degen, so we asked... I, I- Oh ... you and I were DM'ing, and also Brandon. Yeah. And, you know, we had enough degen in our, I don't know, our allowance at the time to, like, fund the contest.

[5:21]Mm. Yeah. Back in the degen days. Yeah. That's wild. It's, uh, really cool to hear always more about the history and the lore of Farcaster, um, because it's, it's always cool to hear, hear more of those stories. 'Cause, uh, using it as an outlet for your photography, not even necessarily like, like everyone was very focused on like, oh, art on chain, this, this and that, but it's like, no, more in the social context of like, this is a social network and I wanna share what I'm doing out there with other individuals.

[5:58]Um, which I don't think Web3 has gotten. Like, d- we were talking about X and it being a more of a place of less signal. I also think it's also, like, way more business-y. It's like LinkedIn- Mm ... in a sense. It has its own problems 'cause it's a social network specifically for a specific purpose, which is great, but it also makes other things that you might wanna do, um, not the best on those specific platforms.

[6:20]So I think Farcaster's an interesting, like, version of, like, kinda developers', uh, social platform, but also then leveraging, uh, other individuals on just creating just their own individuals, like what you were doing with, with photos on the timeline. I've always thought one of the things Farcaster does best is it at-- Like, I know it's cliché to say, but it actually lets you kind of just be yourself.

[6:42]Because on X, like X wants you to be someone. Mm-hmm. Instagram wants you to be someone. LinkedIn wants you to be someone. They want you to like have a niche and like stick to that niche and don't sway outside of it. And then over on Farcaster, it's like I can share a random photo, right? Uh, or like a, a actual professional photo.

[7:02]Um, and then the next cast I could be talking about some random shit that I had for like dinner, and then the next cast I could be talking about something else that's totally random, and the algo doesn't care. Like it doesn't box you into trying to be one person. You can kind of just talk about whatever you want, you know, build whatever you want.

[7:25]Which, yeah, we'll get into with Fotocaster, but- Yeah, a million percent. I think it's, uh, very valuable because you can... Anyone-- Because the fact that anyone can create their own algorithm for creating their own curation of whatever they wanna see, um, because it's all programmable, um, I think that gives you the option to do anything.

[7:44]Um, and then certain people can choose what they wanna see as well, which is really cool, and they could see you from a bunch of different places, not just because like you're such a niche down individual here and they just happen to catch that stream, right? So, um, but yeah, let's definitely go into Fotocaster.

[8:03]Um, what, uh, I know both of you guys talked a lot about photography, um, and how that was an important part of your journey there on Farcaster. How did that lead to the building of Fotocaster?

[8:11]JC, go ahead. So i-it's kind of ironic. Like Erik describes being like a trad fi guy who came into Farcaster, and he developed his, you know, inner photographer, showing his work on the timeline. I'm kind of the opposite. I came in as a photographer and, you know, formerly co-host of ITAP, and then I took over the Nature Channel.

[8:40]And so I was promoting photography for like a year, and then last year I flipped back to what I do for, um, you know, my professional life, and I wrote, uh, Distribution Is Hard versions one and two. And then, then this year I created Founder Check, which is an app that helps builders discover who they're building for quickly so they don't screw everything up.

[9:07]'Cause who is the first thing, everything's downstream of that. And so I launched that, and I was like, "Wow, I can, I can launch on Farcaster. I can build an app." Like a week or so after that, I started begging Erik to build on the Farcaster studio because it was so easy. And so all of our, like two years of complaining about minting our work and all the problems we have as artists, we sort of shut up and started building.

[9:50]And that was what? Three weeks ago, Erik? Two weeks ago? Yeah. Yep. Wow. Yeah. To kind of go into it, um, so like I said, a few years ago, just sharing photography. Come like spring 2024, there was a big wave of people that joined Farcaster because you had both frames which launched- Mm-hmm ... and people were interested in those.

[10:18]And then you also had the whole degen thing, where degen ran up to like a billion dollars. And some of the tipping stuff back then was just nuts. Like, and it... But it, it brought in a lot of, um, you know, both those things and the, the wave of people and the excitement that spring brought in a lot of artists and a lot of photographers.

[10:43]And kind of going back to like other social, like I didn't... I wasn't seeing like professional photography on my Instagram or on X or anything because I wasn't clicking. Like, it wasn't being shown to me. So it was really like the first time that I had just seen like all this incredible art and photography and stuff in Farcaster on the feed, and like really started to kind of promote the, like those people that were joining, because it's, they were putting out incredible work, you know?

[11:21]And so like got to know a lot of these people over the course of 2024. And similar to what you were saying, Zaal, before, before it started, like I had always... Once I actually got my camera in like August of 2024, I knew I wanted to like put my stuff on chain as easy as possible. But there, there's all these different options.

[11:43]They have all these different take rates. Like they don't- You know, they don't integrate that well with Farcaster, which is where I wanted to share it. Um, and it was never about, like, making money for me. It was more like I feel strongly that, like, photography and art and these types of thing, and really anything that's put out digitally or created should be preserved in the best way possible.

[12:13]And, like, the reality is blockchains preserve things as far as we-- better than other, you know, centralized servers or databases right now, for example. We don't know for certain if, you know, the stuff will be around 100 years from now, but, like, we gotta give it a shot, right? Because if we could look back 100 years prior, we would love to be able to see everyone's ph-photos that they've taken, right?

[12:42]It's like, that's really cool. So, like, I think of it more of the archival standpoint versus, like, just the distribution or, like, the investment side. And so when, you know, NFTs really started to pick up steam in like 2021, 2020, you know, people were making money on them, so it was, like, viewed as more of an investment opportunity or a trade, but also, like, as a way to kind of express yourself, right?

[13:10]Or, like, fit into a community. Um, so over the years, like over these couple years, started to form, like, more of a thesis that, like, we have to separate what an NFT is and what putting something on chain is from selling it. Like, not everything is a marketplace. Not everything needs to be an investment. Some things can just be collected because we have a thesis that, like, humans like to collect things.

[13:44]Like, I collected baseball cards as a kid. Like, they still sit in a storage room, you know? Like, we have photo albums in our basement. We-- They're-- We collect all these different things, right? Got my cards right here. Yeah, exactly. So, um, like not everything's an investment. So it started with that thesis in mind.

[13:58]Um, but over, you know, 2024, 2025, really I-- like JC and I built this for ourselves 'cause we're like, we don't have an easy way to put things on chain. Mm-hmm. We don't know what, you know, contracts really we should be using for, like, to give as much ownership to ourselves as possible. And if we do decide to like, you know, yeah, we're separating the minting process from the selling process- Um, which is how art works in real life.

[14:34]It's like you have an art studio, and then you have an art marketplace, and then you have an art gallery, and you have an art, like, exhibition. These are all different. So like our view is the NFT space should be similar to that in a lot of ways. Um, but anyway, like we had a ton of frustrations with the...

[14:52]Like, there were NFT apps, and we also learned from them. We- So it's, it's good. It's a good thing that like we were putting our photos on other apps and we were, you know, seeing what the take rates were, and we were seeing how little ownership or like how little control we had, um, which all led into what Fotocaster is today, which is we built an app that at just from the highest level, like it gives whoever's putting the photo on chain or the art or whatever it is, it gives them as much ownership, control, flexibility as possible.

[15:31]Like, they can title it however they want. The contract, you know, now can't be... It's, it's immutable, so it can't be updated. You also have like people can choose however many editions they want. Could be open edition, could be a price curve, could be one of one, et cetera, et cetera. And then they can price it however they want.

[15:59]And the thesis actually comes, like, if, if we're talking about actually distr- distributing a photo, like where people do collect it and there is a market for that, which we don't think everything needs to be a market. Some things can just be collected even for free. But if there is a market, then like we think that the market should ultimately decide the value of whatever it is.

[16:28]Like, the app doesn't need to like be forcing people into a certain model. And so our view is like you can have defaults and you can make it really simple, make it really easy so people put their stuff on chain to preserve it. Um, but at the same time, like give people all the flexibility that they want.

[16:46]Let them showcase the art how they want. So anyway, it's a long- That was good ... long-winded, but like that's- Yeah ... kind of the whole background of what led into this. So. No, I love it. Last, uh- I mean, it's all, it, it's all based on the human desire to collect and, and Erik's, you know, example was our model. Like baseball cards are a perfect example of a market where people collect stuff, and these people collect baseball cards.

[17:13]And so you may have a large baseball collection that you haven't looked at, right? And then you could take it up a notch. Now you're- Buying and selling or trading. But that's a different kind of collector, right? 100%. And the market's based on widespread distribution so that the average person is the collector, and then there is a s- much smaller community of people who are trading.

[17:46]A million percent. I love it. I love it. I'm super excited. Um, I'll show you guys how easy it is. So let me make it a little bit bigger real quick. So this is the mini app, Fotocaster, right on Farcaster. I just typed in Fotocaster, searched it, and pressed enter. Um, there's a nice big plus button here. I can, uh, immediately go in, choose a photo.

[18:11]I have this photo. Um, I can give it a title. So this is First Sunrise in the USA. It's a hell of a shot. Right? It's, uh, Cadillac Mountain. Ooh. Oh, shoot. I know it's spelled weird. I like Cadillac, Mac. Yeah. Cadillac. Oh man, my spelling's, uh, not the best. So I apologize, guys. Mountain. Mountain. Do you ride a bicycle up there?

[18:31]No, we drove. Uh, we very much drove. Let me, uh, get the date since I actually just pulled this from my Google Photos. November 9th of last year. Let me actually just... I do the same thing where I'll put in the date- ... and location and stuff. Yeah. 'Cause, so now the metadata- Exactly. Yeah. That's why- So- ... that's, does, that's...

[19:16]You get me, like, to actually go and look for that for one more time so I don't- ... ever have to look for it again. Yep. Okay. I think that's good.

[19:25]Gotta add as much detail. Yeah, the goal here is just make it- ... so people don't have to think, right? To put things- Yeah ... in the chain. They just might have to look up a date, but... No, I love it. No, no, no. I saw... Yeah, I, I'm being a perfectionist about this one, I'm not gonna lie. Um, because, um, I've always just pressed enter here because you can just rock out what the default setting is, which I really like.

[19:54]It's cool. It's, uh, open edition starting at five cents and then rising with each collector. But you give the option for an individual to choose all of these different options, right? Open fixed price, limited edition, limited fixed price, one of one, and self-mint, right? And I think that's super powerful, and you were mentioning a lot more about that self-mint part of it all, right?

[20:10]I don't know if you wanna say- Yeah ... any words before I, uh- Yeah, I think, um- ... go with this ... here, this is where it's like make it easy for people to, to upload the photo and publish it. Um, but give- The whoever's putting it, like you in this example, as much freedom as possible for the quantity for, um, you know, the price.

[20:33]And then also, like, we have collectors only drops now, which were requested. We have timed editions, so you can, you know, say this is only open for the next... And you can kinda, like, pair these things together, so you can actually have timed plus collector plus, you know. So they all kinda- Hmm ... you know, it- they're all interoperable.

[20:55]Um, and we'll eventually have, like, auctions and stuff here too, but for right now it's, you know, some of these more basic options. Amazing. So- Um, so yeah, I'm just gonna rock it as a self mint for now. Um, and we'll do three. I love it. Boom. Yeah, so in this example, when you click mint up there, top right- Psh

[21:21]it'll, it'll mint those directly to your own wallet. Um- Amazing. Yeah, maybe I shouldn't have done this one as the example. I'm sorry, guys, but we'll do another one. I have another photo in my downloads as well. It's super easy, right? So I'm gonna go into albums in Maine, and then I think you guys just recently added this today or yesterday, right?

[21:44]So- Yep ... very awesome. Nice and easy. And boom, it's out there. Yeah. Shows the contract. Um, yeah. And that will give- And then you can do- ... a quick example. Yeah. For those- Just for everyone's reference. Yep. Here's a shot. Ski time. Is that Maine too? It is not. This was in New Hampshire. Man, that northeast corner is, like, one of the few places- Northeastern Maine

[22:01]I haven't been. Oh, come visit. You're welcome. Uh- ... we're having an event, uh, in Maine- Road trip. Road trip ... October 3rd. Oh, really? So you should definitely join. Yes, sir. No shit. Add it to Ash Mountain. And so I'm gonna leave this one as this, uh, open edition, not change anything, and press publish. That's one- And that'll be-

[22:37]thing with the price curve we actually thought about, um, that's kind of a new example in with NFTs. It, it... We thought, like, it all goes back to wanting the market to decide. Um, and so you have the... With the price curve, you have an a- you're pairing an open edition. What's that saying? I don't know, but I'll copy it and send it to you for later.

[23:08]I'll do it on... I don't know what's up. I've seen that. Do we get a mint fail during the demo? Yeah, I think so. And I've never had a problem, but I've also never done it on my computer. Me neither, but yeah. Well, we got, we got an error code, so that's good. Um, I'll drop it over to you- Yeah ... and we can figure it out.

[23:29]But, um- Here, I'll collect it. Erik, you were on the topic of price discovery. Oh, yeah. Um, yeah. So f- with the... Yeah, I s- I see it showing up here. This last one. But you can see how easy that is. It's out there. Um, if you do it on... My phone is always working. But, uh, but yeah, we'll, we'll get that fixed and, uh- Yeah

[23:59]and it'll be, uh, rocking and rolling. But, uh, but that was, like, super easy. Um, like I just scrolled down actually through my downloads to, like, quickly find a photo, 'cause I have a lot of random photos in a lot of different places that I've like... Some I've wanted to post, some I've posted, right? Like, in, in many different places, right?

[24:20]But this is, like, really bringing me to, like, the opportunity of wanting to actually, like, on-chain mint every single, like, good photo I feel like I've done in my past so that I can continue. Now, like, that can be like a, uh, capturing all the past and then now it's like, okay, now that I have this tool, I can continue to do that as I, like, go through my life, right?

[24:40]So. Yeah. So one of the things, um, with that, we've just two weeks ago Fotocaster launched, and we actually have, like, a little analytics tab down at the bottom of your profile, um, that shows, like, in just two weeks we've had 4,000 different times someone's collected a photo. Um, there's been 371 unique people who have put photo or art on Fotocaster, and then we think it's really cool that there's...

[25:06]So there's 371 for people that have put photos on, but 787 people, unique people, have collected a photo. So double, like the collectors are double than the creators. Obviously we want both to grow, but like that's a really good signal in, like, having 4,000 photos collected in just, you know, two weeks. Like, I showed, uh, like I sent, you know, these over even to, like, Jesse 'cause the photos are on Base.

[25:42]Um, yeah, and he loves it. It's like this is the type of thing where you can potentially see how, like, just these on-chain components. It's a, it's a simple app. It almost looks like Instagram in a way, but has more, like, custom- uh, you know. It can be more customized. Um, but like it makes sense to be able to collect- someone's photos, right?

[26:07]If, especially if it's, like, five cents or 10 cents or whatever it is. Um, 'cause it's also, like, we think of it as a way to support people. Farcaster is a super supportive network in general. Um, so yeah, sure, like, some of these photos c- are coming from, like, legit professional photographers that have six-figure followings on other apps, and, like, we're collecting their photos for 25 cents-

[26:30]or 50 cents, whatever they're putting it at. And so, like, sure, p- there's the potential that some of these rise in value longer term. Like, there do, you know, some of them have done, like, limited editions where there's only 10 available, and these are, like, legit professional photographers. And so, like, yes, there can be still that, like, you could think how s- you know, 1% of the photos might, at or less, might actually rise in value.

[27:09]But it's separating. Like, that's not the reason for collecting. Like, it also makes it so you can just support, like, your friends, you know, who are putting photos out there, so. I love it. Yeah. It's, uh, that's a perfect way to, to share that. JC, do you have any other, any things to add? Um,

[27:31]I think it was the, it was the good moment for us to put up or shut up, you know? And ha- ha- having done it, it feels good to see it in the world, right? You know, the business model that an app like this typically exists in, um, typically has, um, backers who are expecting, um, return, right? Exactly. And we created an app, you know, that we wanted for ourselves to share with other people who have, you know, the same problems we do.

[28:17]Um, and treat it more like a community good, um, until we figure out how it's gonna exist in the world, you know, on a long-term basis. Awesome. I love it. I have, uh, one question, actually, that I realized I wanted to make sure I ask before we get out of here. Um, where are you storing it, the photo? Like, how are you storing it?

[28:54]It's on IP- We have a hard drive in Walmart- ... in New Jersey. It's on IPFS right now, uh, both the photo and the metadata. But we've already... Like, that's the actually kind of the last piece that we have to figure out. The, like, we know Arweave would work for this. Um, we've thought about, like, I talked with Big Tone, for example, like, on the feed, like, knowing that we need to, you know, have that conversation sooner rather than later.

[29:33]We have to figure out the best way to make it self-sustaining though, because right now artists are getting 99% of the profit. If you can p- like, if they sell a photo, 99% goes to the artist, 1% goes to actually straight back to the deployer wallet, which, like, funds, so it makes it free to be able to put photos on chain.

[29:57]So, like, the deployment itself, you don't pay when you put a photo on chain. The collection, you pay 1% back to that wallet so more photos can get put on chain. So it's like this more, like, self-sustaining loop that we're still trying to figure out the, like, correct, um, what that fee needs to be- Yeah ... so it can self-sustain itself and be, like, that public good.

[30:22]Um, but you know, with that, obviously, like, we've thought about, um, how, you know, how to let an artist, for example, let's say they have NFTs elsewhere, right? How do we help them bring those into their albums too, not just stuff minted on Fotocaster. So, like, make it more of, like, a place where you have full on chain.

[30:45]You can express all your creativity as an artist. You can basically do everything in there. Like, we've already talked about, like, prints, in real life prints, right? Like, we have photographers and artists that are interested in that, like selling. Think, like, if you go to a professional photographer's website or an artist's website, for example, whatever they can do in there, that's what we want them to be able to do on their profile in Fotocaster too.

[31:25]Amazing. So that's kind of like the more longer term vision and just, you know, figuring out the best way to make it self-sustaining so it can actually turn into, like JC mentioned, more of, like, a museum feel or, like, an exhibition where it's like, yeah, there's ways you can sell your art here if you want, but it's really about the preservation. And like about being able to showcase it in the way you want, which is why we just created albums, right?

[31:53]So that's just some, some deeper thoughts there. We have a ton of things we're gonna keep adding to it, so. Amazing. I love it. I'm super excited to post more photos. Um, do you guys wanna give everyone where people can find you guys? Yeah, sure. Uh, so my username on Farcaster is eriks, E-R-I-K-S. Um, my X is eriksx.

[32:18]It's in my Farcaster profile. I, I'm not-- I need to be more active over there, but like I said, I'm just, I'm kinda just focused on Farcaster. Um, and then I have an Instagram too, it's like Erik P. Smit. So there's... Um, but yeah, like I would say Farcaster by far and away is where I share most of my stuff, so.

[32:43]Awesome. JC? By the way, I'm, I'm not hearing Zaal at this point. Oh, shit. So Erik, you have to translate. Just where, where like where to find you. Farcaster X, um, @jlcoulton. Same thing on Instagram. Awesome. Well, thank you guys so much for joining. Yeah. It was an absolute pleasure. And, uh, yeah, thank you everyone for listening in.

[33:31]Shout out to everyone who popped in and listening after. So see y'all soon.

[33:36]In the code where we set you free. Decentralized energy. Let's talk about Web3