Danny · P2E Inferno

[0:00]questions. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Amazing. Yeah. So at the end of it, I would love to

[0:04]even talk about what we're doing together, but we just got started. Welcome everybody to another

[0:09]Better Calls All Yaps episode. I got Danny here with me from PTE. How are we doing today, Danny?

[0:16]Absolutely fantastic. Thanks for having me on the show. Super excited to be here.

[0:23]Yeah, no, this is going to be a great one because we've actually talked a couple of times

[0:26]and even gone live for the Zabal Games to give a little bit of a workshop on Unlock Protocol.

[0:33]But here, we're here to talk about what you've built, P2E Inferno.

[0:38]But let's get a little bit about who is Danny.

[0:41]Yeah, well, to answer that, because I've been a lot of things in the past,

[0:49]But I like to think that right now I identify as a creator and a builder because there's just too many things that catches my interest and I just want to bring them into the world.

[1:05]So I think that I would identify as a builder and a Web3 creator.

[1:10]So I came into the space as a front-end developer, and it's kind of been a crazy journey because now I've evolved into like a full-stack blockchain developer, creator, person.

[1:30]No, I love that.

[1:31]I think it's really interesting how we all get into the space for one reason.

[1:36]And then because of the space, we as humans evolve at the same time of the industry and we find another niche or some other place that honestly sometimes better suits us than the place we initially intended to come up in.

[1:49]So it's really interesting. I came in through TCGs because that's what really interests me.

[1:56]But I found myself in the on-chain music space because of a lot of other various factors.

[2:00]So, yeah, we've met a couple times through things like Unlock Protocol, which is an awesome platform out there that I know you're a partial steward of and built upon.

[2:12]And that's why we chatted before.

[2:15]But I'd love to know a little bit more about PTE, what you've been building on your own and why you built it.

[2:23]All right. Awesome. Great question, because the journey kind of started out as something that didn't even have anything to do with what P2E eventually became.

[2:37]So my journey started out in like 2016, my journey into Web3, and it's all related to how I got to start building P2E.

[2:50]So it's a funny story because I got to get into Web3 to a Ponzi scheme.

[2:58]True story.

[2:59]Yeah, it was not pretty.

[3:01]you know, back then there was this Ponzi scheme that came up and it took over the place. Everyone

[3:08]was just excited about it. I was not interested, but I had this really close friend who went to

[3:14]the university together, went to high school together. He wanted to be, he wanted to play

[3:19]the game. So he was like having me try to do some things about it. And, you know, your friend keeps

[3:27]snagging you. So I'm like, okay, let me go check it out. And I went to the website and I saw

[3:31]something about this weird thing called Bitcoin. And I was like, okay, what is this thing? I called

[3:39]my friend back. What is Bitcoin? He doesn't know anything about it. I called everyone. I knew

[3:44]nobody had heard about this thing. All of the people that were in the Ponzi scheme didn't even

[3:51]know what it was so i decided to like go look this thing up i went on google and i started seeing this

[3:58]thing about like decentralized cryptocurrency blockchain on like immutability and like this

[4:07]thing sounds interesting because you know i come from a background where things aren't like where

[4:14]i come from nigeria it's just not a very pretty place when it comes to like um uh how things are

[4:21]done you know there's just really crazy things going on so when i started reading about the

[4:26]the values that the blockchain represented that bitcoin stood for it was something that really

[4:33]resonated with me so i started to dive in and that's when i discovered ethereum and programming

[4:40]boom money how you can actually program things and back then i wasn't even a developer i was like

[4:46]a i was an artist so i started to like how do i really take advantage of this technology because

[4:54]it was something that i saw what it could become and you know i wanted to to do something about it

[5:01]i didn't just want to be a consumer like a user i wanted to be someone that did create things with

[5:08]this technology. So I learned how to code, started out, and that's how I got into the developer space.

[5:17]And fast forward to 2021, I was a front-end developer and I was at this agri-tech firm

[5:25]and things were going good until COVID happened in 2020. Everything went to hell. And right after

[5:32]2020, 2021, some of the companies that were still standing, some were pretty much just like

[5:39]falling slowly. And the place I worked at was one of them. So we stood through COVID and we thought

[5:46]we had made it, but there were so many things that went wrong that we didn't know about. And so

[5:51]after the aftermath, the company went down and suddenly I found myself out of work and I just

[5:58]got promoted. Like I just became the lead front end developer at the company. And suddenly it went

[6:05]under, I was out of a job. And that's when I came across this YouTube video about Axie Infinity.

[6:13]And so it was this cool web three game you could earn and I didn't have a job. So what do you want

[6:21]me to do? I got in the game. I started playing games every day. And for months, you know, this

[6:28]was this was taking care of my bills and it was good for a bit and you know 2021 things went crazy

[6:35]so uh after some time the token it went down and the whole economy was unstable

[6:42]and it was unsustainable and suddenly i was back into the situation where things were not good

[6:49]again so i dove deeper into the web3 space i was already a developer then so i started building

[6:57]and i got into the build guild started learning with the speedrun ethereum but then i'd already

[7:03]got to my feet deeply wet in the play to earn economy and all of those things and eventually

[7:11]i stumbled upon unlock protocol and started solving things as a bounty that's how i came

[7:19]to discover unlock it was a bounty that needed to be done that had to use the build guild which was

[7:27]um the build guild had a tool called um scaffold eat and they needed to have an integration with

[7:34]unlock so i was part of the build guild doing speedrun ethereum and so with that i already had

[7:42]experience with scaffold eat so i used that to work on the bounty with unlock and that's how i

[7:50]discovered unlock and the technology was fantastic i knew i was going to use that

[7:55]So I stuck around in the community and I started working on things.

[8:00]So the problem was clear to me about like you needed, they needed to be a way for people to like benefit from the technology of the space, the play to earn, but without the issues that came with it.

[8:16]And so I started designing the system.

[8:19]So that's how I had the user's perspective.

[8:24]And then from my experience in the Build Guild, I was organizing communities and events and educational initiatives, onboarding developers.

[8:33]And so I came across this whole problem of participation, which was a huge problem, people participating in initiatives.

[8:42]And so that was a second problem that people needed to actually do productive things for communities to grow.

[8:48]And so they added together for me to build this whole system of P2E where, you know, on one end, it's meant to help people like have something that gives them, you know, a thing that they can do that can provide them value.

[9:06]And then on the other end, it allows people to coordinate and design incentive loops for communities to participate and take action.

[9:19]It's kind of a long-winded story, but yeah.

[9:22]So out of all that, if you had to put it down to like one, two, three sentences, what would you say PDE Inferno is if you were going to elevate or pitch it?

[9:31]I would say it's learn by doing platform that allows communities or businesses to create

[9:42]incentive loops for actions that matter to them. Perfect. No, I love that. And do you want to share

[9:50]a little bit of where you're at and kind of where you want to go in these next few months to year?

[9:57]yeah okay so uh yeah that's a really packed question right there

[10:03]where we are right now we're actually live in production the the whole system is live for

[10:12]people to use so you can head over to the platform it's a pteinferno.com and uh you can create quests

[10:20]it's kind of a design in different ways because of the the different problems that it's designed

[10:26]to tackle so we have uh learning educational programs for actual learning you know because

[10:35]that's a big problem people need to actually learn so there's boot camps for stuff like developers

[10:41]ais and things and then we have like quests for communities that want to incentivize a specific

[10:49]action so that is um that's the most accessible way for people to use it you come on the platform

[10:56]and you can just start doing quests for free.

[10:59]You just get in there and you'll find some of the quests that's available

[11:03]and then you just take it on.

[11:05]And then we have another product for repeated action.

[11:11]So if you want to have people do things on a recurring basis,

[11:15]so we have the daily quests for that,

[11:18]which allows people to keep coming back and doing something.

[11:22]So that's where we are right now.

[11:25]is kind of live. And where we're going is this future where we're trying to experiment on two

[11:34]different things, actually, which is something that we discovered as we started to run everything

[11:41]in production. One is the incentive economic layer. We realized that if it's not on a stable

[11:49]foundation, which right now it's a token based on another token. If the reward layer is not stable,

[12:00]you can have a situation where the behavior that you're trying to incentivize, the reward can

[12:07]suddenly become too small for something that was a fair reward maybe yesterday, can suddenly become

[12:14]too small or maybe unreasonably too big. And you get into this weird situation where the incentive

[12:22]becomes skewed because the value of the token can become volatile. And so we're trying to get to

[12:29]the next level where we're basing it on stable coin so that the rewards and incentive can always

[12:36]be the same, that layer. And as well, we're exploring the relationship with humans and agents,

[12:44]that's humans and AI, like the layer where what it's okay for an AI to be able to do for a human

[12:52]and automate where AIs can take on those tasks. And what is, you know, what should be for humans

[13:00]only. So these things can't be done by AIs. This has to be a human only task. So we're basically

[13:08]exploring that we've got proof of humanity, things already baked in, and we're working on

[13:13]agentic systems as well and the mix of those two things. So that's where we're heading.

[13:20]No, I love it. And I know we've actually talked about a potential integration with something we've

[13:25]built, WaveStation, a place where you can collect music and listen as an access pass. And since that

[13:32]is a potential reoccurring action that can be done since we drop one song a day,

[13:40]that gives the opportunity for us to kind of find a place in PTE Inferno. I don't know if you want

[13:46]to tap in a little bit on that. And then I know you said you had some questions for me as well

[13:50]that we can definitely start conversation about.

[13:53]But no, I'm really excited to get involved.

[13:57]I think this, your backstory and alignment

[14:01]in where you're going makes sense

[14:03]and why you built PTE Inferno.

[14:05]And it's really cool because I don't,

[14:08]I think a lot of people have had a similar experience

[14:11]but haven't realized or haven't had the resources

[14:13]to create what you've created,

[14:15]which is an opportunity for incentivization.

[14:19]And there's lots of incentivization platforms out there.

[14:23]And I'm really interested to see and compare how PTE Inferno stacks up against some of these

[14:30]and what pros we can take from other bounty systems, other on-chain payout economies that are out there

[14:38]and where we can go forward from here.

[14:40]But if you want to tap into a little bit about what we're thinking as a potential collaboration for PTE

[14:47]with everything we're doing and specifically WaveStation.

[14:51]Yeah, that's really cool.

[14:54]I mean, I'm really excited about building that out,

[14:57]like what we are working on with WaveStation

[15:00]because like I said, I did have a background

[15:03]where I used to be highly, deeply involved in hip hop.

[15:10]So that's something that I'm really passionate about.

[15:13]So I do think that with WaveStation, the way P2E works, one of the things that makes us a bit different from other quest platforms out there is we try to focus on actions and we try to make it provable and verifiable.

[15:34]and then we create verifiers for different action types.

[15:40]So when an action is desired by, let's say, a community or protocol,

[15:47]we try to look at how we can make that measurable, provable,

[15:51]and take that to something that can become, let's say, composable or modular.

[15:57]And so what we are trying to do with WaveStation is to take the action that we want to see and build it into this composable verifier layer that then becomes something that is like portable.

[16:14]Because then once you have a verifier, you can turn it into an API.

[16:19]So it doesn't have to now stay on P2E.

[16:23]you don't need to go to P2E platform,

[16:27]like the website to do anything

[16:29]because you can just use the verifier to,

[16:33]you can call the API

[16:34]and the verifier would still be able to work elsewhere

[16:38]and you can put it on your platform and stuff like that.

[16:41]So that's the thing that we,

[16:43]that I think that we do a bit differently

[16:45]from other platforms.

[16:47]I mean, there may be a couple other things,

[16:48]but that's the one that I like to think

[16:50]is one of the important ones

[16:52]because we take the action and then we create the verifier that can be composable.

[17:04]Awesome.

[17:06]So yeah, I just pulled up the website so we can potentially go through it.

[17:09]I don't know if you want to drive me anywhere here specifically, but I already logged in.

[17:15]That's all I did was connect my wallet.

[17:17]So right at the bottom dock, right beside the lobby, you should click on the Quest

[17:21]because that's the most quest, yeah,

[17:25]because that's the open space for anyone that can easily get in.

[17:30]And so there's just different quests.

[17:32]You can click on the rosy beginnings to get to hop into one to see.

[17:40]So this is just like, hey, the intro,

[17:44]you need to click on start to actually get started.

[17:48]And this is just basically beginner steps.

[17:53]You know, you link your email if you don't already, if you haven't already done that.

[17:59]And that's going to help you stay informed, you know, get notifications and information.

[18:06]And then if you haven't connected your wallet, you can connect your wallet as well.

[18:12]and there's also Farcaster signing the terms and things like that.

[18:21]So this is basic, like the basic intro quest.

[18:25]This is the least friction thing that you can do here.

[18:30]And I think the last one should be Farcaster if it's still there or Telegram.

[18:37]So we use Telegram for other.

[18:40]Yeah, there's Telegram and there's Farcaster.

[18:43]Telegram is a really great tool.

[18:45]You know, you can actually build.

[18:48]So you need to actually go to your profile to link the Telegram first.

[18:55]I think, yeah.

[18:56]Okay, I'll probably do that one after.

[18:58]Yeah, yeah, you don't need to do that right now.

[19:01]But no, it's super simple and for reference for everyone.

[19:03]I'm getting a, every time I press claim,

[19:05]I'm getting a wallet transaction that I'm signing.

[19:08]but I imagine if you are logged in through an email,

[19:13]you don't have to actually sign like the full wallet and you're just pressing

[19:16]the sign through Privy, right? So that makes it a little easier. Yeah.

[19:20]And I see what Najee said in the building, I'm in checking out the quest.

[19:25]So let's go shout out to you peeping it. But, but yeah,

[19:31]I'm excited. Like you said, at the very beginning it's modular.

[19:35]And that's like where we're going to play with it a lot where,

[19:37]not only for people collecting in WaveStation,

[19:47]but also some of the other actions

[19:49]that we're looking for as a community.

[19:52]So I'm really excited to get started

[19:53]with our WaveStation demo,

[19:56]really get PDE out to our community as well,

[19:58]share it a little bit, get people testing it,

[20:01]get them sending in some fun buck fixes here and there

[20:04]where people find these edge cases and yeah, rock out.

[20:11]But I don't know if there's anything else

[20:12]you wanted to show on the website before I got off,

[20:15]but I thought I'd at least show it since it's here

[20:17]and really easy to use.

[20:22]Well, the other thing would be the daily quests.

[20:25]You can see it at the top.

[20:29]Oh, you can just click it here.

[20:30]Nice, that's way.

[20:31]Yeah, that was actually a feedback from you.

[20:35]You know, I just had to do it.

[20:36]Let's go.

[20:38]Yeah, and that was a really great feedback too

[20:41]because other than that,

[20:44]you would always have to come here and all that.

[20:46]But these are examples of daily requests.

[20:50]These are basically on-chain actions that you can do now

[20:54]because they're like super easy to verify.

[20:57]but the idea is that once you identify the action,

[21:04]which is where it all starts,

[21:05]you wanna like identify what you need people to do.

[21:09]And that's like talking about a community or a protocol.

[21:12]And once you do that,

[21:14]then you can see how you can measure or verify

[21:20]that the thing has actually been done.

[21:22]And that's how we walk backwards

[21:25]to actually building the loop,

[21:28]which people can actually do the action,

[21:32]get a reward or get a badge depending on the community

[21:35]and whatever it is that's important to them.

[21:38]It could be access to some resource or value

[21:42]like for this once where you get the reward

[21:46]and you can actually visit the vendor on the platform

[21:50]and you can swap that to USDC.

[21:53]and if that's something that you want.

[21:55]So it all depends on like what the community wants

[21:58]and what's really important to them.

[22:01]Because at the end of the day,

[22:02]like the guiding principle that we really like to follow

[22:07]is like participation should move everyone forward.

[22:11]And I think that that's something that is really valuable

[22:16]when you're trying to build something.

[22:18]Because if you're building something and you want it to grow,

[22:22]it's going to require action. Like people need to take action. And sometimes the value or people

[22:29]can't see what value taking that action that is important to the growth of a protocol brings to

[22:37]them. And so once they can't see why it's important to them or why they should do it,

[22:44]they might start having conflict of interest or they might want to start doing other things.

[22:49]And so once it's aligned that the participation in the actions that grow a protocol or community moves me forward, then I'm more, you know, I'm more inclined to do those things. And as I do them, the community grows and I grow. So it's a win-win for everyone.

[23:08]I like it a lot. I'm excited. So you said you might have some questions for me. I'd love to dive in.

[23:17]it's not it's not that serious it's just uh i was just gonna ask you know the zao stock i know it

[23:23]just happened a couple days ago so how exactly did that go and i don't mean like hey this this was

[23:34]this super cool it's it's it's interesting because this is more like a an internet native community

[23:41]where people from so many different places and you've been able to like bring people from like

[23:46]like the online world into like physical space.

[23:50]So I'm curious, like, how was that?

[23:53]And what did you,

[23:55]what was something that you didn't expect that happened?

[23:59]And, you know, was it easier or harder

[24:02]than you expected it to be?

[24:05]It was awesome.

[24:07]Unbelievable.

[24:08]It's the first time I have gathered people

[24:12]since December of 2024 in person, like you said.

[24:16]and it was phenomenal.

[24:18]It was a lot less people, but a lot higher signal.

[24:22]And I'll say that in a lot of different ways.

[24:24]One, I had a lot less resources in 2024 December.

[24:28]Two, 2024 December was Miami spent over,

[24:32]I spent $15,000 on the venue.

[24:35]And here in my town of Ellsworth,

[24:38]I got the venue from the town of Ellsworth for free,

[24:42]essentially, and a stage and a tent

[24:45]from our partners at Wallace Events.

[24:47]So just like at a scale of like sustainability and cost

[24:52]and like looking at this as an opportunity

[24:54]to build a brand and a long-term business,

[24:57]it was an unbelievable success.

[25:00]And earlier this year,

[25:02]we had our third South Festival as well,

[25:04]but I actually didn't organize and call people.

[25:08]We supported the promotion and marketing

[25:10]of one of our musicians from Miami

[25:12]who organized people and brought people together

[25:16]from his community.

[25:19]And it was his third time doing the physical event,

[25:22]the music event.

[25:24]And we had the amazing opportunity of rocking out there.

[25:26]And for me, it was awesome

[25:28]because I didn't have to bring people, which is huge.

[25:32]And from all of it, from our event,

[25:35]it was harder in many ways and easier

[25:38]in many other ways than I would have thought.

[25:42]harder because it was harder to be easy on myself on expectations,

[25:51]easier because like my people like threw down, they were amazing. Everyone was on,

[25:57]everyone in my local community was really impressed by my digital community. And that like,

[26:04]that was huge because like that gave me as a leader, a lot of credibility in like,

[26:10]I could bring these people together and they're all unbelievable volunteers who not only are

[26:15]unbelievably talented, but really great individuals. So it was really cool to bring

[26:20]between 10 and 15 people from around our digital space in different capacities. And a couple of

[26:29]them being artists and the rest being volunteers in different ways. And even the artists being

[26:34]volunteers, one of my big things is I want to make sure that this is like an artist-led

[26:39]organization as Zao Festivals.

[26:42]So I want to make sure my artists have input,

[26:44]the artists have ability to succeed,

[26:45]and we can showcase and promote not only the

[26:47]artists as a musician, but everything else that they

[26:49]did. The stream went unbelievably

[26:51]smooth. And that's all a shout out

[26:53]and testament to Tom Falenz,

[26:56]our final performer, who

[26:57]was awesome on the performance, but then

[26:59]also completely locked it down on the streaming.

[27:02]And my biggest surprise

[27:04]was the after party. It was

[27:07]unbelievable so where I live yeah where I where I live in Maine is very rural area so it's a lot

[27:17]of a specific crowds I didn't bring any my hip-hop artists or like hardcore hip-hop artists were like

[27:23]just rap but these guys were like hip-hop and it was an absolute blast they had like the crew at

[27:30]the end, the main crew, North Creek, it was four or five guys, I think. And I think five guys. And

[27:37]they were phenomenal. They performed really well together. And then there were also like

[27:43]three or four acts before that, all in the like three or four hours after our event before that

[27:51]bar closed. And it was just phenomenal. Found more people that are going to collaborate with locally

[27:55]who are a lot more up my speed, people who are looking to like work on their social media,

[28:00]to work on their websites

[28:03]and do some of the things

[28:04]that I have the skills

[28:05]and resources to do.

[28:06]So it was awesome.

[28:08]And the coolest

[28:08]and most surprising thing

[28:09]is the first act

[28:11]was a cipher

[28:12]and they're bringing people

[28:13]up from the crowd

[28:14]and Maceo are...

[28:16]Oh, wow.

[28:16]I love that.

[28:17]Yeah, Maceo,

[28:18]our cameraman,

[28:21]our content guy,

[28:22]We The Media.

[28:23]If you check out

[28:23]We The Media

[28:24]on any of the socials,

[28:25]he's been going hard

[28:26]on posting a bunch of clips

[28:27]for us,

[28:28]but he got a chance

[28:29]to spin a verse and i like the most excited i am is to release that because i freaking missed it

[28:36]i was whatever out smoking or wherever i was showing someone something but i heard it and

[28:42]i didn't even believe it at first like i was like you're lying yeah just get up there

[28:47]oh my god that was the most surprising thing and it was really cool because

[28:54]like I know what I need to do and this is a billion percent like part of the stages of getting

[29:02]that done so now it's about how can I use the energy from this as well as leaning into this

[29:08]for gathering people locally until next year's event to do different things alongside that

[29:15]collaborate with different individuals and grow we're going to create a brand called Downeast

[29:20]Zao, I think. Down East Maine is where I live. It's a few hours, we're three hours north of

[29:26]Portland, Maine, which is where most of the people live in Maine, and five hours north of Boston. So

[29:30]we're pretty close to Canada. We're about an hour, hour and a half away from Canada.

[29:35]So it's definitely like this, like very specific area. And I think we could create like,

[29:41]buy physical real estate here as well at a certain point, because it's not crazy expensive,

[29:49]and not even in the, and it's just very up the regen wave of like being able to have land and grow,

[29:59]grow, not that I think I'm a green thumb personally, but the organization and the

[30:05]logistics, I'm really excited about like the idea of buying land and decentralizing capital around

[30:14]owning it and then having like, if we use it, the land actually for something, right? You can,

[30:20]you can give, you know, what that land output is to different, you know, split up, right? So it's

[30:26]fraction wise. So I'm really interested in that side of things. And this is one of those steps

[30:32]in getting there, which is really cool. One of the folks that came through and also did some

[30:36]amazing media for us was a person I just met randomly at Solana Boston, and he had a house

[30:43]in the same town that I was throwing this event.

[30:45]So we've been talking about it for like six plus months.

[30:48]He's been, honestly, he a little bit inspired the start of it

[30:51]because I was like, oh, like I was like kind of thinking about it at that point.

[30:54]And that was like, well, it was like, oh, this is crazy.

[30:56]Like I have this other person in Web3 that's around where I live.

[31:00]So pretty cool, pretty cool vibes overall.

[31:03]I'm really excited for the next one.

[31:04]Excited to continue this motion forward of like, okay,

[31:08]Like I have presented myself as an event organizer or promoter.

[31:15]I guess I found the right term, I think, for myself in what I do.

[31:20]Oh, yeah.

[31:21]And I mean, I'm a jack of all trades person where I can do everything, to be honest with

[31:23]it.

[31:23]If I can't do it, I'll find the right person to do it.

[31:26]So that's why I built this out is I need all these people such that for my weaknesses,

[31:31]I can hand those responsibilities off.

[31:33]So I'm really excited for PTE and locking in with you.

[31:37]I appreciate you coming on

[31:39]like I'm really stoked about

[31:41]it gave me the energy

[31:42]I was, I for the last

[31:45]like month since

[31:47]I've been doing this like full

[31:49]full full on even though I probably should have been doing

[31:51]it for a little bit longer it was a little bit more of a

[31:53]back burner for a period of time while I was

[31:55]building this in ball games

[31:56]I got really locked

[31:59]in on like socials

[32:01]and all these specific things for

[32:03]Zao stock organizationally that every

[32:05]single to do that came up that wasn't directly related to Zao stock. I was like, October 6th,

[32:10]October 6th. So we are currently knocking those out, but it's like, it feels so freeing because

[32:16]like I've been waiting for this opportunity for a while. I have the media now behind me of four

[32:22]events, not, not just one. And I also, I found the medium that I need to use to hit the local

[32:30]people here like a week before my event. And I was like, Oh shoot, I really should have been doing

[32:35]this before but it's Facebook like I said we're out in a world but Facebook is way more popping

[32:41]than I really realized and it's frustrating because I can't stand that any of the social

[32:46]medias never mind you know Facebook dash meta but like it's uh I'm getting to the point now

[32:52]where I've found like a couple good groups too and I'm seeing things so like I'm able to just

[32:57]like by commenting on things and being active like I am in web 3 but in web 2 where people

[33:02]don't support and don't like comment on people's stuff at all is really great because it's been

[33:07]like yeah it's just propagated that that really well forward so it's like understanding how to

[33:12]play around with social media on a different layer and then now bringing it back to something

[33:16]like a Facebook like an Instagram will be really interesting so I feel like we have some of that

[33:23]content that could go well there when previously like I never focused on them because the specific

[33:30]like the kind of content I want to do is a little more on the educational,

[33:34]less brain rot side. So it's sometimes hard to hit.

[33:39]So I'm really excited to be able to have the music events back into my like

[33:45]toolkit to be able to amplify the things we're doing.

[33:50]Absolutely. It's super powerful and I love it. This,

[33:53]this sounds like I actually missed, not like I, I was actually planning,

[33:58]but now there's a 2027 one in September, September 18th, right?

[34:05]That's what it, that's the plan right now. Exactly. Yeah.

[34:08]I mean the date officially might change, but we'll, we'll,

[34:11]we'll make sure to get you out. We, we now, again,

[34:16]that's the other thing. This one, I was, like I said, like 10 to 15 people,

[34:19]I think total from outside from the digital world traveled.

[34:24]but a big part of that was people who were like have been either at an event before or

[34:31]or who've been like super active in helping me organize and plan this so I think now that I have

[34:38]like the one event under my belt the fact that we have like a full 12 months to do the next one as

[34:47]as well as another organized event planned with my friend,

[34:54]the Coop's event again next year,

[34:56]we're looking really solid for now having done one event,

[35:00]having like the ability to showcase what happened at the event before the event

[35:06]happened in promotion for the next one, which will be helpful,

[35:09]which we didn't really have physically until we did the first event.

[35:13]Right. So it's all about doing it and participation. Like you said,

[35:16]we'll bring it back to the beginning like i am all about participation that's why you gain

[35:21]governance in the zao by participating as opposed to a normal that was exactly the the last thing i

[35:27]wanted to ask before this it was perfect just pretty much got there because i noticed you have

[35:33]the zabal and then the the the respect that's what is called the zao respect which you basically

[35:41]get from participation, which is separate from like the Zao token, the Zabal?

[35:47]Yeah, the Zabal is my personal. So the idea of the Zao, yeah, the idea of the Zao is that

[35:53]individuals are a part of it and they grow as individuals to help them grow whatever they're

[35:59]building, whether that be a piece of art, whether that be a company, whether that be a song, whether

[36:04]that be a development project. So for me as an entrepreneur, as a content creator, as a developer,

[36:12]I'm using the Zabal liquid token to actually give rewards to different people that are helping me

[36:19]with different things. But the Zao token is an illiquid token. So the idea is that people can't

[36:27]come in and buy it, but by participating in our weekly events and sharing what they're doing,

[36:32]they can actually earn it.

[36:33]And that's the like unique take we're taking on traditional DAOs.

[36:39]And so like me as an individual,

[36:42]oh, it was just a million different things at once.

[36:45]We would have to have a whole nother,

[36:47]a whole nother,

[36:48]oh, so the Zao token was 2024 we started.

[36:52]It was evolved from a different group of people

[36:55]who've created the respect game and the fractal concept.

[36:58]So like I was able to adopt a created concept and I'm still very active in those communities today.

[37:06]And that's been the reason I was able to enact this.

[37:09]And then I started the Zabal at the top of the year this year with the idea that I would offload a portion of tokens over the span of a year in my airdrop in some genius like thought process that didn't work out well.

[37:26]but the reason it didn't work out well

[37:29]is because I paired it with some other token

[37:30]instead of ETH more than anything

[37:32]I believe

[37:33]and yeah so

[37:36]there's a whole bunch of things but

[37:38]in the end of the day it actually ended up

[37:40]I took the

[37:41]positives out of it and was like

[37:44]okay I didn't go crazy on the launch

[37:47]there weren't a lot of people even though

[37:48]you had to do this to get to this

[37:50]to get to this pool

[37:51]not a lot of people got burned

[37:54]because there just wasn't a lot of attention.

[37:57]So it was just like really smooth

[37:58]because it wasn't like anything crazy.

[38:01]It was like a little bump here and there.

[38:03]And like I had support from different people.

[38:06]But I think from now on,

[38:08]I'm just going to rock the airdrop with the Zao.

[38:10]I did a 50-50 like people yapping the month before

[38:14]and Zao individuals.

[38:17]And I think I would definitely,

[38:20]that was, I wanted to test how that would work.

[38:23]and I think it worked a little bit of how I thought it would.

[38:26]There was a couple of small surprising pieces,

[38:28]but the main reason was I needed an ERC-20 out there that was liquid

[38:31]that I could start using tools like Empire Builder and POIDH

[38:37]and some of these other tools.

[38:40]Not that POIDH directly uses ERC-20 tokens, but I digress.

[38:44]I wanted a token that I could distribute out,

[38:46]even if it didn't have a lot of value, to be like,

[38:48]hey, you're doing this thing.

[38:50]You're helping support what I'm doing.

[38:53]Here's like five cents of what I got right now.

[38:56]You know, you can sell it off for five cents or speculate on it.

[39:00]But instead of expecting people to come in and buy it,

[39:04]I want to just like, I'm fine buying some on my own or having it from tokens.

[39:09]That's the other thing people don't fully realize about tokens and launchpads is like,

[39:13]anyways, I digress.

[39:14]My point of that is I think the aspect of leveraging a token for its utility

[39:20]is so underrated in this day and age.

[39:23]And I thought like, you know, whatever to whatever price,

[39:27]like I'm just going to learn,

[39:28]I need to learn a little bit more of playing around with this.

[39:30]And I learned about liquidity pools.

[39:32]I learned about so many other small things along the way.

[39:35]And I can continue to use the Zabal token

[39:37]as I think at some point I'm going to create a Zabal V2

[39:41]properly paired with ETH.

[39:43]I might wait till the end of the year

[39:44]once the airdrops are done.

[39:46]And I'll just grab whomever has Zabal at that,

[39:49]snapshot period and evolve it because to be honest with you there's no liquidity because

[39:54]it was through like a specific pool and thing and it because the clanker is one-sided liquidity

[39:59]pool to start but because we started with a different token it wasn't started with eth

[40:03]so it's just like a whole bunch of small things where i made one choice and that gave me off

[40:11]like all these people are on a path when they launch tokens and i went on a complete year

[40:16]early because of that versus like a lot of traditional launches.

[40:21]So like, let's say like successful launches right here.

[40:25]And like, maybe there's very few that have gone straight.

[40:27]And every token has fallen off for one reason or another because of one reason.

[40:31]It's gotten to a friction point along the way where it hasn't been able to sustain.

[40:35]And like one of the first ones was us, was liquidity pools.

[40:39]But I learned so much.

[40:41]So it's like, I have this idea for a token launcher now of like, you don't launch a token at the start, but you launch an idea and you generate people around and a community and a website and socials and all these things.

[40:57]And then at a certain point, you decide if you want to launch a token or not.

[41:01]Maybe it's something you don't need a token for, right?

[41:03]So it's really interesting, but the Zabal is me as Better Call Zal trying to grow myself.

[41:12]And then I created the Zal as a way for not only me to dog food, learning myself and growing myself as an entrepreneur individual, but also the people around me.

[41:22]So yeah, that's also a little bit about me.

[41:25]That's super cool.

[41:26]That's super cool.

[41:27]So that's something that I can relate to on so many different levels,

[41:32]but I'm not going to go into it.

[41:34]Yeah, well, so what we need to do, Danny, is we need to have an X space.

[41:39]That's what we should rock.

[41:41]And I think that we could get some folks in and testing PTE in a space.

[41:49]So I think we should try and rock out a time next week

[41:51]where we can just hop on a space.

[41:54]We'll share it out.

[41:55]and maybe we just, let me, yeah, we can talk more about it after.

[41:59]But yeah, I think an X-based, try and get people to try it out.

[42:02]And then over that time, maybe we can also test out a different integration as well.

[42:08]Something that's on something like my website where we can lead people to that as well

[42:14]and they can try out one of our flows.

[42:16]So yeah, thank you for coming on, Danny.

[42:19]Where can people find you?

[42:20]Where can people reach out to you?

[42:21]uh,

[42:22]X,

[42:23]um,

[42:24]Instagram,

[42:25]Farcaster.

[42:26]It's Danny Toms everywhere.

[42:29]D a double N I T H O M X on Farcaster X Instagram,

[42:38]but you know,

[42:40]Danny Toms.

[42:40]Everywhere.

[42:41]Super excited.

[42:42]Thanks for having me.

[42:44]Great.

[42:44]Thank you,

[42:46]Danny.

[42:46]Thank you.

[42:51]We'll see y'all soon. Maybe next week with Danny again, but on the X basis.

[42:57]Yeah. Have a good one, y'all. Peace.